You have the wrong creation you ninny - eschatology and genesis

Dan'l Danehy-Oakes · 10 Sep 2014, 20:09 · from 2014-September.txt.gz

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From: danldo at gmail.com (Dan'l Danehy-Oakes)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 13:09:22 -0700
Subject: (urth) You have the wrong creation you ninny - eschatology and
	genesis
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Question: Given that time travel is the only "real" connection between the
two, what is to say that the universe of Long/Short Sun is the same
iteration as that of New Sun? Perhaps L/SS is our universe.

On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 11:35 AM, Lee <severiansola at hotmail.com> wrote:

> >Gerry Quinn: Well, you did ask what could be the purpose of
>
> >introducing an iterated universe, and this is an in-text reason
>
> >for it.
>
>
> It was meant more rhetorically to address the thread topic, but okay.
>
>
> >he makes it clear that this (Urth as past iteraton) is the sort of idea
>
> >that he was considering.  I don't think it necessarily establishes that
>
> >he intended it to be unambiguously determinable from the text.
>
>
> Agreed, in similar fashion to the other recent topic, Dr. Marsch being
>
> replaced by an abo. As discussed, that was an ambiguous point until the
>
> Wolfe interview confirmed it. I find the Jordan interview to be confirming
>
> on this issue.
>
>
> >I don't see anything much in the text that
> >pushes us towards understanding it as a past iteration.
>
>
> Agreed. In this case I find the interview to be the most compelling
>
> evidence for it and the text serving as confirmation. (I'm pretty
>
> sure Wolfe mentions the past iteration idea in other interviews also.
>
> I'll try to find them if anyone is interested).
>
>
> >He might have chosen this to avoid contrasting the Conciliator with a
> >past Incarnation.
>
>
> On first reading, it is very possible to confuse the Conciliator with Jesus
>
> who did serve to present a bridge of conciliation between those of heaven
> and
>
> those of earth. But, by the end of Citadel, we can be pretty sure The
>
> Concilliator is Severian and UotNS confirms that.
>
>
> >If so, though, it seems to me he changed his mind between New Sun and
> Long Sun.
>
>
> Is this because of what Marc notes as the Catholic trappings of Silk's
> religion?
>
> Or the vision of the Jesus-like figure? Both?
>
>
> Until told by him otherwise, I must assume Gene Wolfe intended to be
> consistent
>
> in his transition from New Sun to Long Sun and Short Sun. Thus, Urth, The
> Whorl
>
> and all of Briah are not in our universe but a past iteration. God (the
> Outsider)
>
> appears in this universe as Dionysian and pre-Christian rather than
> Jehovian and
>
> Christian. Crosses and priestly confessions and Jesus-figures may appear
> but they
>
> are not (yet) related to Christ.
>
>
> (I would not rule out that Silk's vision of the Jesus-figure was actually
>
> Jesus Christ of Earth but if so, he would be an example of Marc's "leakage"
>
> between universes, much as Urth's "Typhon" and Green's vampiric "Inhumi"
> have
>
> leaked from Briah to our own myths and legends)
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-- 
Dan'l Danehy-Oakes
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