Tzadkiel's form

Jeffery Wilson clueland.com · 17 Sep 2014, 04:25 · from 2014-September.txt.gz

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From: jwilson at clueland.com (Jeffery Wilson clueland.com)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2014 23:25:47 -0500
Subject: (urth) Tzadkiel's form
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	<CADQR0GpeO00ZmHjKaa+hKFLJk8NjbrP0TkDQwGpEkPePxDLwkQ at mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <54190D4B.6020905 at clueland.com>

On 9/15/2014 7:58 PM, larry miller wrote:
> Mind Blown!
> Is Hethor introduced in the same chapter as Jonah? If Im right this is
> also where Jonah tells the story of the "beans" too.  The idea
> that Typhon was on the Ship could be huge.  If he originally was
> a lifeform akin to Tzadkiel, this would certainly line up with Wolfes
> naming schema that any mythological name indicates an alien origin.
> On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 9:08 AM, Lee <severiansola at hotmail.com
> <mailto:severiansola at hotmail.com>> wrote:
>
>      >Daniel Otto Jack Petersen: That's a kind of beautiful theory, Lee
>
>
>     Thanks, DOJP. Ship's sails as angel wings does work rather
>     poetically. Credit to
>
>     Wolfe for that.  I am wondering if this theme of large beings being
>     mistaken
>
>     (or conflated) with ships might be related to the theme of large,
>     fish-monster
>
>     mouths being mistaken for caves.
>
>
>      >james ford: I was always under the assumption that the tale of the
>     naviscaput was
>
>      >about Abaia.
>
>
>     Yes, I think Severian himself muses on that. But here is an
>     interesting consideration:
>
>
>     The daughter of the Naviscaput, Noctua, reports that her father had
>     taken her mother,
>
>     "Night" by force. In Greek mythology, Night or Nyx  is mated with
>     her primeval god-
>
>     brother Erebus.
>
>
>     So maybe the Naviscaput is Erebus instead of Abaia? Given the odd
>     ways these giant
>
>     creatures can reproduce themselves I'm not sure there is quite the
>     distinction between
>
>     their identities as there would be for sexually produced, born
>     creatures such as ourselves.
>
>
>     Also of interest (to me, anyway), one of the mythological offspring
>     of Erebus and Nyx is
>
>     the boatman of the dead, Charon. I think he makes an appearance in
>     BotNS.
>
>
>      >The implication of Tzadkiel and the beasts on Urth sharing a common
>      >origin is great and well worth looking into. Why would these
>     monsters, as
>      >possible offshoots of the Hierogrammates, work against the coming
>     of the
>      >New Sun? What caused the schism? Or is it really as simple as the
>     monsters
>      >being "fallen" versions of Tzadkiel?
>
>
>     For me, it is a general principle for the whole Sun Series that when
>     Wolfe has left gaps
>
>     in the story regarding mythologically named beings, that the gaps
>     can often be filled by
>
>     turning to mythology (or religion, as it were).
>
>
>     So in trying to understand the opposition of the megatherians to the
>     New Sun I think a
>
>     good starting point is to understand why Lucifer and the fallen
>     angels mutinied and
>
>     opposed God (and Jesus) and left heaven and fell to earth.
>
>
>     I used that word because a "mutiny" is the primary storyline we see
>     play out while
>
>     Severian is on Tzadkiel's Ship. Perhaps we cannot understand Ship
>     politics any more
>
>     than we can understand heavenly politics in the Bible.  We may have
>     to just shrug and
>
>     say pride, power and control are the issues and these guys decided
>     they would rather
>
>     reign on Urth than serve in heaven (metaphor- Ship).
>
>
>     We are shown one of the mutineers (jibers) resembling Hethor. Given
>     that the "old sailor"
>
>       Hethor, in his urthly ramblings, seems to say that he HAD been a
>     mutineer on his vessel,
>
>     I think we can safely conclude that Severian does see Hethor on the
>     Ship but a younger
>
>     version of him, from before they encounter each other on Urth.
>
>
>     Given Hethor's mastery of mirrors and monsters, I don't find it a
>     stretch that he is
>
>     associated with the fallen angels/demons who reside on Urth. My
>     guess is that, in parallel
>
>     to the Biblical story,  all of the monsters fallen to  Urth
>     originated as mutineers from Tzadkiel's
>
>     Ship. By name alone, this would include Typhon.

This would explain Typhon's rapid apprehension of the time displaced 
Conciliator, but other Hellenic names do *not* relate to Ship-sailors, 
Nessus for one.


-- 
Jeff Wilson - < jwilson at clueland.com >
A&M Texarkana Computational Intelligence Lab
< http://www.tamut.edu/cil >

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