Tzadkiel's form

Marc Aramini · 17 Sep 2014, 18:29 · from 2014-September.txt.gz

This is the message as the crawl holds it, before anything here touched it. What the conversation shows has been through ingest: transfer encodings decoded, attachments dropped, quote markers repaired, and the archiver’s ? resolved into quotation marks and dashes. Those repairs are judgements and some of them are wrong, which is what this page is for. Email addresses are obscured here as they are everywhere else on the site, so it is before our repairs rather than byte for byte.

From: marcaramini at gmail.com (Marc Aramini)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 11:29:16 -0700
Subject: (urth) Tzadkiel's form
In-Reply-To: <BLU175-W40A8DF118D4EC4C45E1E2ECFB60 at phx.gbl>
References: <BLU175-W40A8DF118D4EC4C45E1E2ECFB60 at phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <CAF1072y2Rs1QNqRpEidRXPdW5cVR60AeRJJ2whLwLzCndScBqA at mail.gmail.com>

One thing I wanted to mention is Wolfe's reliance on Remembrance of Things
Past ... some of the greatest lines "time turns our lies into truths" "love
is the only divinity" " the real world is a construction of the mind" etc.
are taken directly from the volume titled The Fugitive (instead of eating a
madeleine to attain memories, he eats a Chatelaine, and the letter Marcel
perceives as one from dead Albertine leads him to believe she is not dead
just as the Agia/Thecla letter let Severian fool himself) But there is a
very important scene in the novel where Gilberte has married St. Loupe, and
the two paths that Marcel had romanticized in his youth (Swann's Way and
the Guermentes Way) are revealed to be ultimately the same path, leading to
the same place.

The future of the New Sun is ironically one which would probably be little
different than the one Abaia wants: mankind dead, the Urth flooded.  Who
really won?  the paths are almost the same in the final analysis, serving
the will of the pancreator, though even the incomprehensible hieros
themselves are infinitely below Him.

On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 11:21 AM, Lee <severiansola at hotmail.com> wrote:

> >Marc Aramini: Flora attained a magic flower to impregnate her.  I can't
> believe
>
> >there was argument on the list about Spring Wind being Mars, whose
> ceremonies
>
> >are primarily in March.  Making it a red flower is Wolfe's innovation, I
> think, that
>
> >links the story to fire.
>
>
> I thought it might be worth a mention to any who may not be so familiar
> with Kipling
>
> that the "red flower" is used in the Jungle Book, with Mowgli-Frog, Shere
> Khan, etc.
>
> to refer to fire, it being Man's special gift.
>
>
> The special gift of fire as conferred by a superior being is best known in
> the Prometheus
>
> story but that story has echoes in the Judeo-Christian tales of Lucifer,
> the light bringer and
>
> Azazel the (scape)goat god/demon who, like Prometheus is chained to a rock
> for his interference
>
> with humanity.
>
>
> I'm pretty sure Wolfe is aware of these alternately sympathetic and
> nefarioius views  of the
>
> fire/light bringing deity among ancient peoples. I think this may be part
> of what is behind
>
> the admonition to Severian that what is happening to him and Urth is more
> than just a battle
>
> between "good" and "evil". There has been much recognition on this board
> in the past that
>
> both "good" and "evil" end up serving God's plan equally.
>
>
> >Another thing from Eschatology and Genesis that strikes the reader is
> that the Autarch is
>
> >confused with God by Meschia. ........ Even though the autarch is not
> played by Sev in that
>
> >scene.
>
>
> He is played by Dr. Talos who also plays the part of archangel Gabriel.
> When you consider
>
> Dr. Talos' detailed familiarity with cosmic knowledge, his knowledge of
> Earth, his skills in
>
> beautification, his amazing artistic and literary skills, his association
> with the "godling"
>
> Baldanders and his mythological name, I find little doubt that he is in
> some way
>
> associated with the other pagan gods/aliens/fallen angels who roam the
> Urth.
>
>
> >Also, the last man's name of Ash (teutonic Ask) whose wife Embla had a
> name which meant vine.
>
> >They were supposedly created from a dead tree and its dead parasite by
> Odin and crew. Which
>
>  l>eads me to believe that both futures came true simultaneously, somehow.
> [the trees and lianas
>
> >of Green]
>
>
> More broadly, I would mention that when Severian travels the Brook
> Madregot, he finds that it
>
> only branches travelling upstream, not downstream. Leading me to the
> conclusion that in this
>
> universe, a common past may indeed lead to multiple futures which all
> exist. Master Ash
>
> disappears when Severian drags him into the branching in which the New Sun
> appears. If he
>
> had somehow dragged Ash across the frozen plain of Urth's atmosphere, I
> presume he would
>
> not have disappeared.
> _______________________________________________
> Urth Mailing List
> To post, write urth at urth.net
> Subscription/information: http://www.urth.net
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.urth.net/pipermail/urth-urth.net/attachments/20140917/06a93fbc/attachment-0001.htm>

An unofficial mirror of a public mailing list · about & removal requests · download the archive · before the list · original archive at urth.net