Tzadkiel's form
Mark Millman · 18 Sep 2014, 14:56
· from 2014-September.txt.gz
This is the message as the crawl holds it, before anything
here touched it. What the conversation shows has been through ingest: transfer
encodings decoded, attachments dropped, quote markers repaired, and the
archiver’s ? resolved into quotation marks and dashes. Those
repairs are judgements and some of them are wrong, which is what this page is
for. Email addresses are obscured here as they are everywhere else on the site,
so it is before our repairs rather than byte for byte.
From: markjmillman at gmail.com (Mark Millman) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 10:56:23 -0400 Subject: (urth) Tzadkiel's form In-Reply-To: <54190D4B.6020905 at clueland.com> References: <BLU175-W2349B9FD26D1646A44291CCFCD0 at phx.gbl> <CADQR0GpeO00ZmHjKaa+hKFLJk8NjbrP0TkDQwGpEkPePxDLwkQ at mail.gmail.com> <54190D4B.6020905 at clueland.com> Message-ID: <CAD2109cZZvJEmpb2f=to6+U3cboooj4UXEjY-k3WxnA8D3JQEA at mail.gmail.com> Folks, On Monday 15 September 2014, larry miller wrote: > . . . Wolfes naming schema that any mythologi- > cal name indicates an alien origin. . . . Let's be clear before there's any more confusion: Wolfe writes, on page 43 of the book-club edition of _The Castle of the Otter_, on the first page of his essay, "Onomastics, the Study of Names": "The names of human beings in _The Book of the New Sun_ are just human names. (I can think of only one exception--Loyal to the Group of Seventeen, the Ascian who appears in _The Citadel of the Autarch_.) . . . The monsters are named for monsters." So any mythological quality of a human name should not affect the character's human identity. Ones named Oedipus, Atreus, Agamemnon, Menelaus, Patroclus, Odysseus, or even Theseus, for example, would still be human. For that matter, some people might consider Dorcas and Jonas mythological names--though not from Greek mythology, of course. Similarly, Typhon is certainly a monster, whether his origin is human (and, like Baldanders, he made of himself a monster, as I believe) or otherwise. And on Wednesday 17 September 2014, Marc Aramini wrote: > The problem is that there are two origin stories > for the monster Typhon, too. In one he is born > of Mother Earth and Tartaros, in the other ... he > springs from Hera (who is Juno) alone, without a > father, just as Mars did from her. Perhaps there > is a conflation in the story between Mars and Ty- > phon, which would be unfortunate. > > [snip] > > It is very very unfortunate that Typhon and Mars > are possibly both born of Hera/Juno without a fa- > ther, but then again ... Typhon does say "No, I > was not born as I am, or born at all, as you > meant it." Note that later in the essay, on page 45, Wolfe also writes: "Are Typhon and Piaton one monster? Their names say they are not. Piaton has a human name. Typhon bears the name of a classical giant who breathed fire and was one of the chief enemies of the gods. The typhoon has blown his name into the modern world. Some commentaries make him the son of Zeus and Niobe (well, that's what Niobe said), and the wicked brother of the Egyptian Osiris, whom he murdered. . . . Other commentaries--and in mythology, there are always others--say he was conceived by Hera without male assistance. (My own bet is that she just wanted to forget that guy.) He is often confused with Typhoeus, son of Gaea and Tartarus, who had wings and the body of a snake. When two boys look so much alike, you're bound to get them mixed up." So we at least know what background Wolfe was using when he named Typhon, and that he distinguished Typhon, who may be born of Hera alone, from Typhoeus, who is the offspring of Gaea and Tartaros. Incidentally, in the same essay, on page 44, Wolfe writes: "If Erebus is a cold monster, his partner Abaia is his opposite. The original Abaia was a giant eel inhabiting the waters of the South Pacific. Never one to overlook the obvious, I've supplied our Abaia with giant undines for concubines." I hope that this information proves helpful. Best, Mark Millman
An unofficial mirror of a public mailing list · about & removal requests · download the archive · before the list · original archive at urth.net