resurrecting a 2002 thread that posits an alternative lineage for Sev

Brad Henry · 02 Oct 2014, 14:19 · from 2014-October.txt.gz

This is the message as the crawl holds it, before anything here touched it. What the conversation shows has been through ingest: transfer encodings decoded, attachments dropped, quote markers repaired, and the archiver’s ? resolved into quotation marks and dashes. Those repairs are judgements and some of them are wrong, which is what this page is for. Email addresses are obscured here as they are everywhere else on the site, so it is before our repairs rather than byte for byte.

From: bradhenry101 at gmail.com (Brad Henry)
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2014 10:19:21 -0400
Subject: (urth) resurrecting a 2002 thread that posits an alternative
 lineage for Sev
In-Reply-To: <CACJ=J7kZscKP2xX7i28Rdc9bDyj0AWCN8j+Z2Nj230BaaU5aOg at mail.gmail.com>
References: <BLU175-W4D7E8F9A23D86B224C9C7CFB90 at phx.gbl>
	<CAF1072zt+0144vGvT83BudxXpTy-BumU58XXnzwUJ5A1q1XzBw at mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+kecju65uJ5K2zg6V6BTa8qnyEbU77yjpxXOP_Ujc8yNpis3A at mail.gmail.com>
	<CACJ=J7kZscKP2xX7i28Rdc9bDyj0AWCN8j+Z2Nj230BaaU5aOg at mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+kecjv5XDhwt=052xJvymRECg28T-t34q4J0orYXr2am5nDYQ at mail.gmail.com>

I'm sure I'm late to the game on this one too, but Paul often refers to the
final culmination of a christian's life as being made "like the stars
(suns) in the heavens" (a traditional apocalyptic image that should not be
taken simply metaphorically).

On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 10:14 AM, Ant?nio Marques <entonio at gmail.com> wrote:

> And Christ performed miracles through faith, not by the use of some
> magical power belonging to himself.
>
> On 2 October 2014 15:04, Brad Henry <bradhenry101 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> And part of catholic teaching is that saints are not simply 'controlled
>> by christ' in their working of miracles (many saints have performed
>> miracles like severian') but they are in the process of 'theosis' (or,
>> sometimes called 'divination'), being made into gods, that culminates in
>> their resurrection to immortality. It is a christian quip: "God became man,
>> so that man might become (a) god." The traditional biblical cite for this
>> is 2 Peter 1.3-4.
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 9:47 AM, Marc Aramini <marcaramini at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> This is obvious, but for me the miracles make him pretty explicitly a
>>> Judeo-Christian wonderworker/savior with a little sin and torture thrown in
>>> for good measure (bleeding from the forehead when he sees the many
>>> eye-winged butterfly, turning water to wine, resurrecting the dead,
>>> healing, carrying a huge cross shaped torture device which is occasionally
>>> planted in the ground, being tempted by Satan almost verbatim (but never,
>>> say, transforming into an animal like a Pagan god)) - my earliest
>>> impression when I was a young boy was not that he was a normal person but a
>>> Christ.  The pagan gods are the unnatural creatures in New Sun whose
>>> mythologies are incorporated and transformed into Christian stories [such
>>> as the flood and the story of Genesis]. (At least throughout The Book of
>>> the New Sun).
>>>
>>> I never fancied Sev ordinary. While clearly Wolfe loves playing with
>>> mythical creatures, the importance of his Catholicism to his works
>>> shouldn't be understated.
>>>
>>> On Thursday, October 2, 2014, Lee <severiansola at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> >On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 7:35 AM, David Stockhoff <
>>>> dstockhoff at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Severian is a (pagan) god. He has a presentiment of it at the beginning
>>>> of his story but by the end
>>>>
>>>> of Citadel, we are meant to understand that he was The Conciliator and
>>>> he will be The New Sun.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> By the end of Urth of the New Sun we also understand that in addition
>>>> to his superhuman healing
>>>>
>>>> powers, he was also worshipped as Apu Punchau, he can breathe
>>>> underwater, he can travel through time
>>>>
>>>>  he is immortal (though not invulnerable), and at the very end he once
>>>> again finds himself worshipped as
>>>>
>>>> a god.
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Urth Mailing List
>>> To post, write urth at urth.net
>>> Subscription/information: http://www.urth.net
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Urth Mailing List
>> To post, write urth at urth.net
>> Subscription/information: http://www.urth.net
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Urth Mailing List
> To post, write urth at urth.net
> Subscription/information: http://www.urth.net
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.urth.net/pipermail/urth-urth.net/attachments/20141002/a04f530b/attachment.htm>

An unofficial mirror of a public mailing list · about & removal requests · download the archive · before the list · original archive at urth.net