resurrecting a 2002 thread that posits an alternative lineage for Sev

Dan'l Danehy-Oakes · 06 Oct 2014, 17:54 · from 2014-October.txt.gz

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From: danldo at gmail.com (Dan'l Danehy-Oakes)
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2014 10:54:02 -0700
Subject: (urth) resurrecting a 2002 thread that posits an alternative
 lineage for Sev
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Antonio, I don't know where you're getting your Catholic/Orthodox theology,
but it's wrong. Both churches clearly teach (cf.
http://www.christusrex.org/www1/CDHN/ccc.html) that Jesus Christ was God,
the Son, begotten of the Father, true God from true God, but *also* fully
human: twi-natured.

On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 8:14 AM, Ant?nio Marques <entonio at gmail.com> wrote:

> Christ the man performed miracles through his faith in God, nothing else.
> That is, Christ's ability to perform miracles wasn't in any way different
> from that of his disciples, who also performed them through faith in God.
> That is straight, orthodox (and Orthodox), Catholic teaching, or should I
> say dogma. Christ wasn't able to perform miracles because he was God, but
> because of his faith in God. He also prayed, while we're at it!
>
> On 2 October 2014 15:39, Matthew Weber <palaeologos at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Through faith in what, Himself?
>>
>> Christ is a hypostasis of divinity and humanity.  It's correct to say
>> that his power is not magical (i.e. granted him by some other, more
>> powerful agency).  It is no more magical than my power to use my arm to
>> lift a cup of coffee to my mouth so I can drink it.  My power to do so is
>> inherent, as is Christ's to perform signs.
>>
>> Insofar as Wolfe is an orthodox RC, it can be assumed that this is what
>> he believes as well.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 7:14 AM, Ant?nio Marques <entonio at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> And Christ performed miracles through faith, not by the use of some
>>> magical power belonging to himself.
>>>
>>> On 2 October 2014 15:04, Brad Henry <bradhenry101 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> And part of catholic teaching is that saints are not simply 'controlled
>>>> by christ' in their working of miracles (many saints have performed
>>>> miracles like severian') but they are in the process of 'theosis' (or,
>>>> sometimes called 'divination'), being made into gods, that culminates in
>>>> their resurrection to immortality. It is a christian quip: "God became man,
>>>> so that man might become (a) god." The traditional biblical cite for this
>>>> is 2 Peter 1.3-4.
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 9:47 AM, Marc Aramini <marcaramini at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> This is obvious, but for me the miracles make him pretty explicitly a
>>>>> Judeo-Christian wonderworker/savior with a little sin and torture thrown in
>>>>> for good measure (bleeding from the forehead when he sees the many
>>>>> eye-winged butterfly, turning water to wine, resurrecting the dead,
>>>>> healing, carrying a huge cross shaped torture device which is occasionally
>>>>> planted in the ground, being tempted by Satan almost verbatim (but never,
>>>>> say, transforming into an animal like a Pagan god)) - my earliest
>>>>> impression when I was a young boy was not that he was a normal person but a
>>>>> Christ.  The pagan gods are the unnatural creatures in New Sun whose
>>>>> mythologies are incorporated and transformed into Christian stories [such
>>>>> as the flood and the story of Genesis]. (At least throughout The Book of
>>>>> the New Sun).
>>>>>
>>>>> I never fancied Sev ordinary. While clearly Wolfe loves playing with
>>>>> mythical creatures, the importance of his Catholicism to his works
>>>>> shouldn't be understated.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thursday, October 2, 2014, Lee <severiansola at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> >On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 7:35 AM, David Stockhoff <
>>>>>> dstockhoff at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Severian is a (pagan) god. He has a presentiment of it at the
>>>>>> beginning of his story but by the end
>>>>>>
>>>>>> of Citadel, we are meant to understand that he was The Conciliator
>>>>>> and he will be The New Sun.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> By the end of Urth of the New Sun we also understand that in addition
>>>>>> to his superhuman healing
>>>>>>
>>>>>> powers, he was also worshipped as Apu Punchau, he can breathe
>>>>>> underwater, he can travel through time
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  he is immortal (though not invulnerable), and at the very end he
>>>>>> once again finds himself worshipped as
>>>>>>
>>>>>> a god.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Matt +
>>
>> For all that nature by her mother wit
>> Could frame in earth.
>>     Edmund Spenser (1552-1599), *The Faerie Queene [1590], bk. IV
>> [1596], canto 10, st. 21*
>>
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>
>
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-- 
Dan'l Danehy-Oakes
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