barrington interview

Norwood, Frederick Hudson · 08 Oct 2014, 15:07 · from 2014-October.txt.gz

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From: NORWOODR at mail.etsu.edu (Norwood, Frederick Hudson)
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2014 15:07:22 +0000
Subject: (urth) barrington interview
In-Reply-To: <BLU175-W2054A50C3862ED3733A642CFA30 at phx.gbl>
References: <BLU175-W2054A50C3862ED3733A642CFA30 at phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <0DA454A32913114C9CC19BB781FB907D011FA5 at ETSUMB2.etsu.edu>

Actually, crows can do simple math.  If four hunters enter a house and three come out, the crow can do enough math to avoid the house.  Four hunters in, four come out, the crow flies to the house.  Twenty hunters in, nineteen out, the crow flies to the house.  The crow can see the difference between three and four but not between nineteen and twenty.

I do not believe there is an alien race for which four (the concept, not the symbol) is less than three.  

For a good science fiction story on this subject, read "Omnilingual" by H. Beam Piper.

Rick Norwood  

-----Original Message-----
From: Urth [mailto:urth-bounces at lists.urth.net] On Behalf Of Lee
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2014 10:57 AM
To: urth at urth.net
Subject: (urth) barrington interview

>Thomas Bitterman: Is there an argument against the universality of mathematics

>that isn't  just the Genetic Fallacy?

By Genetic Fallacy I assume you mean this:

>The genetic fallacy, also known as fallacy of origins, fallacy of virtue,[1] 

>Is a fallacy of irrelevance where a conclusion is suggested based solely on 

>something or someone's origin rather than its current meaning or context

My objection to the assumption that math is universally applicable is because

math originates from the mind of one species on one planet in a very small

corner of one galaxy in a universe of a (perhaps) infinite number of galaxies.

As I understand it, the Genetic Fallacy would apply if math had been found outside

that original context. For example, if we found math being used by members of 

another species from outside our solar system or galaxy. Or if we had travelled

to all corners of the universe and found math applicable everywhere, not just

from the perspective of planet earth.

But currently (as far as I know) math is used only by that one species on that

one planet.

I wouldn't claim it is impossible for math to be universal. I would only say that it  

seems unlikely to me. The fact that everything we encounter can be described 

mathematically seems most likely due to human limitations on what we are able 

to encounter.  

In other words, we simply can't see what we can't see.  The assumption of a cosmic 

universality to our mammalian-evolved perceptions and thoughts seems unfounded

to me.

Of course, if we are talking Special Creation and math as a special mastery for 

understanding the universe, as bestowed upon us by God, then that's a different story. 		 	   		  
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