resurrecting a 2002 thread that posits an alternative lineage for Sev

David Stockhoff · 10 Oct 2014, 11:39 · from 2014-October.txt.gz

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From: dstockhoff at verizon.net (David Stockhoff)
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2014 07:39:50 -0400
Subject: (urth) resurrecting a 2002 thread that posits an alternative
 lineage for Sev
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His position outside Time also prevents his becoming terminally bored 
from all that omniscience, I hope.

On 10/9/2014 12:37 PM, Dan'l Danehy-Oakes wrote:
> Frederick, no. God did not "decide" who would be damned/saved; He 
> *knew* who would be damned/saved. There is a key difference. He 
> creates beings with free will, but because of omniscience and His 
> position outside of Time, he knows in advance what they will do and 
> how He will respond to those actions.
>
> On Thu, Oct 9, 2014 at 7:19 AM, Norwood, Frederick Hudson 
> <NORWOODR at mail.etsu.edu <mailto:NORWOODR at mail.etsu.edu>> wrote:
>
>     I didn't find even a hint of free will in the Bible.  God decided
>     who would be damned and who would be saved before he created the
>     universe.  That doesn't leave much room for free will.
>
>     On the other hand, I once published a paper proving that action by
>     an effort of will is at least possible, else consciousness would
>     never have evolved.  It couldn't contribute to survival and
>     reproduction if it couldn't do anything.
>
>     Rick Norwood
>
>     -----Original Message-----
>     From: Urth [mailto:urth-bounces at lists.urth.net
>     <mailto:urth-bounces at lists.urth.net>] On Behalf Of Gerry Quinn
>     Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2014 9:48 AM
>     To: The Urth Mailing List
>     Subject: Re: (urth) resurrecting a 2002 thread that posits an
>     alternative lineage for Sev
>
>
>     On 07/10/2014 14:58, Lee wrote:
>     > I'd add to that the paradox of Free Will. How can an all-powerful,
>     > all-knowing Creator construct every molecule of a human being and
>     > claim to not know what that human being will do when faced with
>     > temptation?
>
>     Does He claim that?
>
>     > I am not at all religious myself. But I know Gene Wolfe is. So
>     when I
>     > enter his worlds and try to understand them, unlike the real
>     world, I
>     > have to become something of a Christian and take leaps of faith and
>     > accept essential contradictions and otherwise become a bit
>     religious.
>     > I think that is necessary when you are trying to understand a
>     > fictionally created world. Intent and meaning become more important
>     > than logic and science. For the natural world, I think science works
>     > better.
>
>     The same problem arises in science.  As far as we know
>     scientifically, a robot with a computer brain could - and perhaps
>     soon will - be manufactured.  This robot may have a determinate
>     programming, such that we can predict by simulation how he will
>     respond to any stimulus.  Yet we know of no 'scientific' reason
>     why he should not have free will just as much as we do.
>
>     [You could put a random number generator based on quantum
>     decisions in his brain to make him sometimes unpredictable on
>     principle.  But making him act erratically for no good reason
>     hardly enhances his free will!]
>
>     See also Newcomb's Paradox.
>
>     - Gerry Quinn
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>
>
>
> -- 
> Dan'l Danehy-Oakes
>
>
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