[EXTERNAL] Re: Heinlein's Universe and The Long Sun

Ab de Vos · 28 Jan 2020, 16:43 · from 2020-January.txt.gz

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From: foxyab at casema.nl (Ab de Vos)
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2020 17:43:01 +0100
Subject: (urth) [EXTERNAL] Re: Heinlein's Universe and The Long Sun
In-Reply-To: <CAJ8=rthNMTjERuZ3zeS72wFLHFbEQEOVCgBpVVdgUhgCOxiesw at mail.gmail.com>
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Message-ID: <120ba054-493e-a019-9bae-ba6d317b479e at casema.nl>

Like so many he 'evolved' from a liberal to a conservative point of view 
politically while getting older. Churchill made a famous remark about 
this phenomenon but in this case Heinleins fear of communism and the 
bomb played probably a larger role. According to /Astounding/ (by Alec 
Nevala-Lee) Heinlein went into politics in 1933 because of his 
admiration for Upton Sinclair, a progressive socialist.(page 109) Later 
on he became an adherent of Barry Goldwater like Heinlein a libertarian 
and opponent of the New Deal. It is ironic that the hippies who were 
detested by Heinlein embraced /Stranger in a Strange Land/.(pages 338-340)

Nevala-Lee's book is informative about Campbell, Ron Hubbard, Heinlein 
and Asimov. The whole business of mental technology, Korzybsky, 
Dianetics and Scientology, is pretty interesting though treated 
indirectly by the author.

Op 28-1-2020 om 16:32 schreef Dan'l Danehy-Oakes:
> I think it is safe to say that Heinlein /never /"loved" or advocated a 
> military dictatorship.
>
> Dan'l Danehy-Oakes
>
> /Maka ki ecela tehani yanke lo!/
> /--/T?a???ke Witk?
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 28, 2020 at 4:57 AM Norwood, Frederick Hudson 
> <NORWOODR at mail.etsu.edu <mailto:NORWOODR at mail.etsu.edu>> wrote:
>
>     Other Heinlein parallels/satires in The Land Across: Grafton is
>     Heinlein?s classic ?man who learns better? turned inside out. What
>     Grafton learns is what Heinlein ?learned? in his long career.
>     Heinlein, like Grafton, starts out as a liberal, (who like
>     Heinlein, loves travel) and ?learns? to love a military
>     dictatorship, with a mysterious Hitler-like dictator serving as
>     Heinlein?s ?grand old man?.
>
>     Rick Norwood
>
>     *From:*Urth [mailto:urth-bounces at lists.urth.net
>     <mailto:urth-bounces at lists.urth.net>] *On Behalf Of *Stephen Hoy
>     *Sent:* Monday, January 27, 2020 4:47 PM
>     *To:* The Urth Mailing List <urth at lists.urth.net
>     <mailto:urth at lists.urth.net>>
>     *Subject:* Re: (urth) [EXTERNAL] Re: Heinlein's Universe and The
>     Long Sun
>
>     Appreciating the Heinlein connections noted by Gem and Gerry; a
>     reminder that RAH is still relevant in the 21st century, as
>     Christopher Nuttall might put it.
>
>     The interesting bit about the?conveyor belt roads of Heinlein's
>     The Roads Must Roll is that it has a precedent, and a much better
>     fit with TLA, in H.G.Wells' When the Sleeper Awakens (1899).
>     Wells' title recalls a noticeable sentence in TLA Chapter One "Now
>     it seems to me that I must have been asleep a long time before I
>     got into bed" followed by several "awakenings" throughout TLA.
>
>     Note that Wells and Wolfe each relate the struggle of a potential
>     ruler of a dystopian society who gets caught up in a struggle
>     between opposing factions. I don't think the parallels go much
>     beyond this. It's a lot like Wolfe's choice of Baskin-Robbins as
>     an allusion to Andromeda (Messier-31 Flavors) in An Evil Guest, or
>     the allusion to Boris Badenov in a conversation at a cafe in TLA,
>     "I don't trust that conductor. Why is he so short?" to draw
>     attention to Papa Zenon's lack of stature.
>
>     Aramini's Black-Red-White trichotomy helps us think about a lot of
>     TLA's mysteries, although I suspect there is a lot of cloning
>     going on along with the imprinting of personalities. Imprinting is
>     found in Home Fires, TLA, A Borrowed Man. There's
>     cloning/imprinting of some sort in A Borrowed Man, and I think
>     something similar is happening in The Land Across.
>
>     - Stephen
>
>     On Mon, Jan 27, 2020 at 10:21 AM Norwood, Frederick Hudson
>     <NORWOODR at mail.etsu.edu <mailto:NORWOODR at mail.etsu.edu>> wrote:
>
>         Another Wolfe novel, The Land Across, is, I think strongly
>         influenced by Heinlein, and essentially a satire of Heinlein.
>         This is just my opinion, I?ve never heard anyone else say
>         this. But the Rolling Roads early in the novel, which play no
>         other part in the plot, I take as a hint.
>
>         Best,
>
>         Rick
>
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