Urth Net

← back to the conversation

There Is No Hope Road

Dan'l Danehy-Oakes · 27 Aug 2001, 09:40 · from urth-v0030.mbox · original

This is the message as the crawl holds it, before anything here touched it. What the conversation shows has been through ingest: transfer encodings decoded, attachments dropped, quote markers repaired, and the archiver’s ? resolved into quotation marks and dashes. Those repairs are judgements and some of them are wrong, which is what this page is for. Email addresses are obscured here as they are everywhere else on the site, so it is before our repairs rather than byte for byte.

From: "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes" <ddanehy at siebel.com>
Subject: (urth) There Is No Hope Road
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 09:40:31
Message-ID: <urth-v0030-0675 at digest.urth.net>
X-Urthmirror-Source: http://www.urth.net/urth/archives/v0030/0675.shtml
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Tony Ellis (no, really!) wrote:

> There you have it: solving the mystery in detective fiction brings order,
> solving it in film noir brings the discovery that there -is- no order.

Well, yes, but before film noir was Dashiell Hammett, (whose THE MALTESE
FALCON is, in essence, the ur-text of film noir: but it was a novel before
it was a film). In Hammett's world, and especially that of his unnamed
hero, the Continental Op, we have precisely the world of the Norse sagas
-- there is ultimately no order, no justice, but honor demands that we
act as if there were and, bring them to pass where we can.


> Broadly speaking I would agree with what I take to be the general
> consensus: that this is precisely the sort of mystery Gene Wolfe
> does not write. But at least one important exception springs
> immediately to mind: The Fifth Head of Cerberus. In both the first
> and the final novellas, the 'detective' far from solving a mystery
> becomes ensnared in one. The universe remains corrupt and unsolved.

But then, 5HC is almost exactly a portrait of an fallen but unsaved
world; it is precisely in such a world that the hardboiled detective
story and the feelm nwah take place. (And there is no hope, as near
as I can tell, for the redemption of Number Five Wolf(e)* and/or=20
"Dr Mars(c)h," leaving 5HC one of the most unbearably depressing books=20
I have ever read.)

-----
* (Any relation to Number Ten Ox?)
-----

> In fact it's just hit me: the seedy underworlds of St Anne and St
> Croix are pure film noir, complete with criminal kingpin, bent
> cops, and femmes fatales. Does anyone else think "Mean Streets:
> The Fifth Head of Cerberus Considered as Film Noir" sounds like=20
> a good title for a Wolfe essay?

How about "The Detective of Nightmares?" <g> -- yes, it's a workable
title.

--Dan'l


*More Wolfe info & archive of this list at http://www.urth.net/urth/




An unofficial mirror of a public mailing list · about & removal requests · download the archive · before the list · original archive at urth.net