The Best Introduction To The Mountains

John Barach · 02 Jan 2002, 18:42 · from urth-v0031.mbox · original

This is the message as the crawl holds it, before anything here touched it. What the conversation shows has been through ingest: transfer encodings decoded, attachments dropped, quote markers repaired, and the archiver’s ? resolved into quotation marks and dashes. Those repairs are judgements and some of them are wrong, which is what this page is for. Email addresses are obscured here as they are everywhere else on the site, so it is before our repairs rather than byte for byte.

From: John Barach <jbarach at telusplanet.net>
Subject: Re: (urth) Re: The Best Introduction To The Mountains
Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 11:42:46 -0700
Message-ID: <urth-v0031-urth.v031.n022.4 at digest.urth.net>
X-Urthmirror-Source: http://www.urth.net/urth/archives/v0031/urth.v031.n022.4.shtml
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Andy --

Here's Alice's original post re. Wolfe on 9-11.

John

Subject: (urth) take 'em, tiger
     Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2001 03:37:38 -0800 (PST)
     From: aturner3 <aturner3 at nyc.rr.com>
 Reply-To: urth at lists.best.com
       To: urth at lists1.ba.best.com

A message from Wolfe:

? Pioneer Press September 27, 2001
A guest essay by Gene Wolfe, published in a Chicago-area local
newspaper, is unfortunately not online. Wolfe urges citizens to act
quickly, and pressure the politicians to take action...=20

We will be told that the perpetrators (and only the perpetrators) must
be punished, and that the greatest pains must be taken to make certain
no innocent person suffers. That sounds much better than saying no
action should be taken, but it comes to the same thing. The perpetrators
cannot be punished. They died in the planes they hijacked and are beyond
our reach. It is not possible to fight a war (not even a losing war)
without causing innocent people to suffer.=20

Wolfe's recommendations for immediate action: 1) declare war on nations
that harbor terrorists; 2) arm the plane crews; 3) seal the borders; 4)
return non-citizens to their homelands; 5) root out terrorist
organizations everywhere; and 6) stop pressuring Israel to go soft on
terrorists.=20

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

Here's Jim Jordan's response:

At 03:37 AM 12/1/2001 -0800, Alice wrote:

>Wolfe's recommendations for immediate action: 1) declare war on nations th=
at
>harbor terrorists; 2) arm the plane crews; 3) seal the borders; 4) return
>non-citizens to their homelands; 5) root out terrorist organizations
>everywhere; and 6) stop pressuring Israel to go soft on terrorists.

#s3. & 4. seem extreme. As for #1., I prefer the analogy of declaring
war on the Barbary Pirates. Declare war on Al Qaeda and anyone similar,
not on nations qua nations, unless things change. That would cover #5.
Iraq is a special case; I think Bush has done correctly to say let the
UN inspectors back in now, or else....  I agree with #6, though I think
Israel needs to correct some things in her behavior also.

The main thing, I think, is not to be naive about Islam in general and=20
radical Islamism in particular. The American understanding of society is=20
rooted in Christian notions, that God is One but also a Community, so
that there are multiple "heirarchies" and "spheres" in life (church,
state, family, media, business, etc.), and that love & reasonable
persuasion is the best way to function in community. Islam is purely
monotheistic, with one hierarchy from Allah to men to women & children &
slaves, a hierarchy based solely on power and not moderated by love and
persuasion. Though many Westerners are not Christian by personal
committment, they have been influenced by these Christian (and partly
Athenian) ideas; and of course many people in Islam have been influenced
by Western ideas. But pure Islam, and thus the Islamic militant revival,
rejects those moderating ideas. What they understand is power, and it is
important for the West (America in this case) to show Great Power, the
"big footprint," in suppressing radical Islamism. Neither kindness nor
reasonable persuasion are going to work on people who want to keep their
women in total subjection -- and I think the "liberation" of women is
one of the main, if not THE main, threat/s these particular people fear
and loathe. (Consider the Taliban.)

FWIW

Jim Jordan

An unofficial mirror of a public mailing list · about & removal requests · download the archive · before the list · original archive at urth.net