The Best Introduction To The Mountains

Thomas Bitterman · 04 Jan 2002, 21:32 · from urth-v0031.mbox · original

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From: Thomas Bitterman <tom at bitterman.net>
Subject: Re: (urth) Re: The Best Introduction To The Mountains
Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 16:32:43 -0500
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Adam Stephanides wrote:

>Andy, I think you're putting too much emphasis on the libertarian elements
>in Wolfe's political thought (which are certainly present), at the expense
>of his call for submission to legitimate authority, which is just as
>important, if not more so.  This is clear in the opening paragraphs of
>Wolfe's essay, both the very first paragraph--one of the "definite duties"
>of "Dark Ages" peasants was submission to those whom God had appointed to
>rule over them
>
This pretty standard Catholic fare for every society everywhere.  See,=20
for example:
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03794b.htm, which states:
"Love for his country will lead the citizen to show honour and respect=20
to its rulers. They
represent the State, and are entrusted by God with power to rule it for=20
the common good.
The citizen's chief duty is to obey the just laws of his country. "

>--and the code of conduct Wolfe learned from his father:
>"Legitimate authority was to be obeyed without shirking and without
>question."
>
This may actually be a heresy (kind of, it is described as" now=20
abandoned by all Catholics, and
has become obsolete"), and it's unlikely Wolfe means it in the simple=20
sense in
which it is stated.  See, for example:=20
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02137c.htm :
"A legal enactment may be immoral, and then it cannot in conscience be=20
obeyed; or it
may be ultra vires, beyond the competence of the authority that enacts=20
it, in which case
compliance with the law is not a matter of obedience, but of prudence. "

on the same page, Pius IX (in his _Syllabus_) condemns the following=20
statement:
"It is allowable to refuse obedience to lawful princes, and even to=20
rebel against them"

Perhaps he has reserved some wriggle-room in "legitimate", but it seems=20
unlikely given
the "Luciferian" element in Vodalus's opposition to the autarch.  Wolfe=20
seems to be
implying that any form of civil disobedience is immoral.  I can't find a=20
better cite,
but see: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03794b.htm:
"According to that teaching citizens are religiously bound to reverence=20
and obey their
civil rulers in all matters which belong to the sphere of civil=20
government."

>
>And afaik, in none of his works does Wolfe reject the state in toto, merely
>unjust states.  (And I would disagree with your reading of "The Death of
>Doctor Island."  Doctor Island represents authority in general, not just t=
he
>state.)
>
This is straight Catholic doctrine again: from=20
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03794b.htm, quoting
Leo XIII in "Immortale Dei":
"Man's natural instinct moves him to live in civil society, for he=20
cannot, if dwelling apart, provide himself
with the necessary requirements of life, nor procure the means of=20
developing his mental and moral
faculties. Hence it is divinely ordained that he should lead his life,=20
be it family, social, or civil, with his
fellow-men, amongst whom alone his several wants can be adequately=20
supplied. "

Catholics have traditionally been Aristotelian (man as a social animal,=20
naturally impelled to form a
state) as opposed to contracturalists (like Hobbes, where forming a=20
society is purely a matter
of choice).  This alone would make this topic difficult for a=20
Catholic/libertarian mix.

On the topic of the progenetic model of leadership, any comments on the=20
theory that Silk
is a clone of Pas?  It would support this model, and make it easier for=20
an eventual Pas
takeover of Silk (as, for, what happened with Oreb).

Pas comes off as a very Gnostic-type figure, aping the Catholic social=20
order in which everybody
has their own special talents.  It is interesting of Wolfe to turn the=20
tables on the Gnostics.
In "standard" Gnostic cosmology, the "real" God lies outside of the=20
lower order the demiurge
(ie, the Catholic God) rules over.  In the Whorl the Catholic God is=20
outside, and the demiurge
is inside, and the "Gnostic" Silk is actually correct.  But this post is=20
getting too long already.

>
>--Adam
>
Tom

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