Smart Robots

James Jordan · 22 Apr 2002, 15:00 · from urth-v0204.mbox · original

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From: James Jordan <jbjordan4 at cox.net>
Subject: (urth) Smart Robots
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 10:00:59 -0500
Message-ID: <urth-v0204-745 at digest.urth.net>
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>hartshorn wrote:
>
> >I won't comment on the Pharasees/Saducsees debate, but I will note one
>other thing about Wolfe.   Apparently machines - computer, Taloses,=20
>Solders and chems - are themselves to be redemeed, and become children of =
God.

Roy wrote:

>First of all, redeemed from what, exactly? Original Sin? For a Christian w=
ho
>subscribes to that doctrine (as all, I assume, must; otherwise what need of
>a "Savior"?), that's a rather queer notion. I mean, the progeny of Eve, ev=
en
>unto the nth generation, cut off from the Tree of Life and cursed to live =
by
>the sweat of their brows, are all doomed by the nature of their flesh--the
>perils and temptations and foibles attendant upon it--to live out their
>lives as best they may, then to die. After death they are to be judged, and
>rewarded or punished eternally, according to how well they acquitted
>themselves while alive and in the flesh. That flesh is subject, by
>definition, directly to Lust and Gluttony and, indirectly, to others of the
>Deadly Sins. It is very hard, if not impossible, to "sin" in any way that =
is
>not reducible, ultimately, to the animal nature of the species.

(rest of good points skipped)

         In defense of Wolfe, he has said (in the my old interview with=20
him) that he does not take the Genesis account literally. (And, it's really=20
the sin of Adam, not Eve. Adam stood by silently and put Eve up to tasting=20
the fruit to see what would happen. He ate it when she failed to die=20
immediately. He was the first Male Chauvinist Pig in history, but hardly=20
the last. Thus, in the Bible it is always the sin of Adam, not the sin of=20
Eve, that corrupted humanity. But back to the main topic:)
         This, of course, makes it hard for Wolfe to explain the origin of=20
sin. He's not going to want to fall back on some kind of evolutionary=20
notion that human "sin" has some kind of "animal" and "pre-rational" past=20
as its root. So, for him the origin of sin has to be some kind of mystery.
         Cordwainer Smith also has "redeemed" underpeople-animals and=20
robots, but in his case this is tied to his view of language as an aspect=20
of the Word of God. Any creature that rises to the ability to use language=20
creatively has risen to the point where he/she comes into contact with the=20
Divinity. For him, the image of God is tied closely to language, and thus=20
when animals and robots learn to speak for themselves (not just what has=20
been programmed in), they acquire the image of God also. He could then have=20
said, if he had chosen to do so, that such creatures are "adopted" into=20
humanity, thus receiving both the blessings (language) and curses (sin) of=20
humanity, and also thus being able to receive redemption from the Word=20
Incarnate. I think there is enough indication in Smith's works to make a=20
case for this model.
         But I don't see this kind of reflection in Wolfe. I think he's=20
just using an SF-trope, and we have to give him permission. It's really no=20
different from allowing for time travel, faster than light space travel=20
(assuming an Einsteinian universe), etc.
         The same kind of theological problem arises from intelligent alien=20
species -- which in almost all SF are just human beings in different=20
shapes. Christians writing SF either need to have no aliens, or else their=20
aliens need to be sinless -- or at least to have fallen as a result of=20
someone other than Adam. But then, if they are redeemed, you wind up with=20
an incarnation of the Son and His death over and over on planet after=20
planet -- and this creates many more theological problems that I won't bore=20
you all with.
         My way of taking Wolfe on this is that he is writing fiction, and=20
using some SF tropes in a non-realistic, symbolic way. If he's projecting a=20
"real possibility for the future," then all the problems you mentioned=20
arise. If he's using this mingling of personalities, and intelligent=20
robots, as ways of speaking about the human condition, then there is really=20
no problem. It's fiction, after all. Intelligent robots are just symbols=20
for "other kinds" of people. Mingling of personalities is a way of=20
expressing the way people share a common life and bear one another's=20
burdens; and also the way Christ lives in us and we in Him, and in each=20
other. Etc.
         I tend to divide SF into three types: the Science type, the=20
Fiction (literary) type, and the Adventure type. The Science type moves=20
toward projecting some kind of real future. The Adventure type just wants=20
to amuse us with a good yarn, and does not care about faster then light=20
spaceships or that his aliens are just like human beings. The Fiction type=20
uses SF tropes for literary purposes. Jack Vance is a good example of this.=20
He was asked at the Orlando World Con a few years back why he has so few=20
robots and computers. His answer was that such things did nothing for him=20
as a writer. If in the future robots and computers do everything, then the=20
kind of things he want to write about become uninteresting and pointless.=20
He affirmed that he was not trying to write some kind of "real" future=20
fantasy. I think we can agree that Wolfe is mostly also of this second type=20
of SF. He's enough of a hard scientist to put lots of hard science thinking=20
into his writing, but ultimately he's writing Fiction about human beings.

FWIW.

Nutria


--=20

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