Loyal to the Group of Seventeen

bobking · 12 Jun 2002, 20:18 · from urth-v0206.mbox · original

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From: <bobking at gate.net>
Subject: Re: (urth) Loyal to the Group of Seventeen
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 16:18:33 -0400
Message-ID: <urth-v0206-1228 at digest.urth.net>
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I see a connection with Newspeak here, but more in the sense that Wolfe is =
rejecting Orwell's pessimism (if I'm interpreting him correctly) about the =
human mind's ability to overcome totalitarianism.

In _1984_ Newspeak and the rest of Oceania's thought control obliterate all=
 reality and history except for what the Party wants to present. The muddle=
d and imprecise expression fostered by Newspeak ma
In TBOTNS, it seems that the Ascians have tried to do the same thing to an =
even greater extreme. Not only are only a certain selection of words allowe=
d, as in Newspeak, but Ascians can only speak (and
But for Wolfe, humanity is able to overcome these hobbles. Even using only =
the approved phrases, Loyal to the Group of 17 can tell the story he wants =
to tell and try to win the contest. Totalitarianis
I much prefer Wolfe's more optimistic vision to the one Orwell proposed (al=
though Orwell's idea seemingly had a lot going for it in the 1940s). And I =
think history has proven Wolfe right -- the commun
-- Bob

On Tue, 11 Jun 2002 08:31:37 -0700 Dan'l Danehy-Oakes <ddanehy at siebel.com> =
wrote:

Matthew asks:

> > >Has anyone mentioned this is a response/riposte to Orwell=20
> and Nuspeak?

and Hartshorn replies:

> It is obvious that it is derived from 1984 and Nuspeak.   The=20
> idea that the Ascian's war may be derived from the eternal war
> between Oceana/Eastasia/Eurasia is a good one.

Ummm ... well, maybe a little, but the speech patterns of the=20
Ascians are _not_ derived from Newspeak. They are a clear and
luminous reference to the habit that was for many years common=20
in mainland China and among certain groups of "liberal"=20
"intellectuals" in the US, of constantly quoting from the sayings
of Mao Zedong -- or Mao Tse-Tung, as it was then spelled -- and
treating such quotes as the final authority, in much the way some
fundamentalist Christians treat quotes from Scripture.

--Blattid

--=20

--=20

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