Urth Net
Out of the office (was Re: Digest from urth@urth.net)
Ian Lamont · 03 Sep 2002, 12:59
· from urth-v0209.mbox · original
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From: Ian Lamont <ian_lamont at harvard.edu> Subject: (urth) Out of the office (was Re: Digest from urth at urth.net) Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2002 08:59:06 -0400 Message-ID: <urth-v0209-1644 at digest.urth.net> X-Urthmirror-Source: http://www.urth.net/urth/archives/v0209/1644.txt.shtml MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=====================_548759==_.ALT" --=====================_548759==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 07:57 PM 8/26/02 -0400, you wrote: >Message-ID: <004801c24cb7$be21af80$1f3dc6d8 at rclackey.stic.net> >From: "Roy C. Lackey" <rclackey at stic.net> >To: <urth at urth.net> >Subject: Re: (urth) PEACE: 3 Misses >Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 23:19:04 -0500 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Reply-To: urth at urth.net > >Matthew responding to me: > > >> I can make nothing of "Tyler". > > > >Not having read Peace I have no idea if there's any relevance but the word > >can mean door or gate keeper. Archaic and obsolete except in Masonic > >Lodges where the additional meaning of keeping out the uninitiated applies > >and Tyler is a formal position. To tyle the lodge; bar the doors assured > >that only the aurhorised are within. > >So, Helen Birkhead Tyler yields . . .? > >torch + shininghead (?) + gate keeper(?) > >flame-topped gate keeper? > >Like the cherubim with flaming swords at the gates of Eden, guarding the way >to the tree of life? > >-Roy > > >-- >Message-ID: <14C3784DB7932F458F3A929D779546400235D648 at smtexmb02.siebel.com> >From: "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes" <ddanehy at siebel.com> >To: "'urth at urth.net'" <urth at urth.net> >Subject: (urth) Coldhouse Banshee >Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 09:27:00 -0700 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plain; > charset=iso-8859-1 >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Reply-To: urth at urth.net > >Good heavens ... Stone Ox has brought up a marvellous correspondence, >and then missed something that ... well, I guess it isn't obvious >because I never saw it before either, but somehow it jumped out of >his posting at me: > > > Jack stays in the barn haunted by the banshee three nights. > >...as does the coldhouse prank victim (Friday, Saturday, Sunday nights). > >Okay, then: making the banshee story as abstract as possible... J >wants very badly a treasure in F's possession. F dislikes / looks down >on J / regards J as a poor recipient for the treasure, but for some >reason does not give an outright "No." Instead, he sets J to spend three >nights in a place which should kill him. > >Now, one of the things the embedded stories in PEACE seem to do is to >provide better or happier endings to some of the situations in Weer's >life. So I am moved to speculate that the Coldhouse Prank was not a >prank at all, but a deliberat attempt to keep a "real world" (Weer's >reality) J from acquiring something that a "real world" F did not want >him to have but could not deny him. > >To those for whom the book is fresher in their minds than it is in >mine, then: Do any possible real-world F's and J's come to mind? The >most obvious candidate for F would be Julius, who owns the barn / >coldhouse... is this even plausible? And if so, who would be J? > >(Is this another candidate for when Den "really" died?) > >--Blattid > > >-- >Message-Id: <v03130302b9901add4af9@[209.179.251.152]> >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 10:59:19 -0700 >To: urth at urth.net >From: Michael Andre-Driussi <mantis at siriusfiction.com> >Subject: (urth) Coldhouse Den-die >Reply-To: urth at urth.net > >Blattid, regarding the coldhouse prank death, wrote: > >(Is this another candidate for when Den "really" died?) > >Well, er, yes and no. > >If Weer is lying about his age at the time (invalidating the big anchor for >the current operating timeline), then the coldhouse death could be his own, >just as he might be a dead boy next to his chemistry set. > >(And he would lie about his age ostensibly to distance himself from the >prank if he was the perpetrator, too. In addition to lying about his age >to avoid facing the fact that he himself died there.) > >But if Weer is not lying about his age, and the victim's details are true, >then no, the death cannot be Weer's. > >=mantis= > > > >-- >Message-ID: <14C3784DB7932F458F3A929D779546400235D64E at smtexmb02.siebel.com> >From: "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes" <ddanehy at siebel.com> >To: "'urth at urth.net'" <urth at urth.net> >Subject: RE: (urth) Coldhouse Den-die >Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 11:23:21 -0700 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plain; > charset=iso-8859-1 >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Reply-To: urth at urth.net > > > Blattid, regarding the coldhouse prank death, wrote: > > >(Is this another candidate for when Den "really" died?) > > > > Well, er, yes and no. > > > > If Weer is lying about his age at the time (invalidating the > > big anchor for the current operating timeline), then the > > coldhouse death could be his own, just as he might be a > > dead boy next to his chemistry set. > >Which was in fact my point ... This is just a goof, really, but >it's a stfnal idea that I've played with many time and never >come up with a good storyline for ... I've often had the idea >of, well, if you can have multiple-sheaf futures, why not multiple- >sheaf pasts? And then what if Alden, the Reasonably Friendly Ghost, >actually has lived multiple versions of his life and died at >several different points along the timeline ... ? It would >certainly clear up (by making irrelevant) many of the >inconsistencies in the storyline(s). So he died of a stroke, and >he died playing with his chemistry set, and he died in the >coldhouse prank ... Just a goof, as I said. > >But I'm dead serious about the coldhouse == the barn. > >--Blattid > > >-- >Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 18:27:21 +0000 (GMT) >From: Josh Geller <dclxvi at dclxvi.best.vwh.net> >To: urth at urth.net >Subject: (urth) The Devil In A Forest and St. Olaf of Norway >Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.40.0208261815230.8590-100000 at dclxvi.best.vwh.net> >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII >Reply-To: urth at urth.net > > > >The Devil In A Forest is perhaps a minor work, but an extremely >interesting one. > >There's a hamlet in the woods, the woodcutters who are relics of a >previous stage of civilization, a bandit who is a woodcutter aristocrat, a >witch who knows the technology of the old civilization, megalithic ruins >that are 'not a town' etc. > >This is one of the most valuable books for people trying to understand the >old civilization of Europe. > >There's a story about King Olaf the Holy of Norway. See, it was generally >known that he was a reincarnation of Olaf Geirstadtalf, who was buried in >the mound at Geirstadt. There had been a prophecy to the effect, he had >Olaf G.'s sword that came out of the mound etc. The problem was that St. >Olaf was occupied with the forcible Christianization of Norway, and it >sort of looked bad that a Christian king should be an incarnate elf. So >they did a little stage play, where the King and some of his companions >(who would also have been out of the mound, by the old way) went to Olaf >G's mound on horseback and one of the companions asked the King if >he didn't remember when they had been there before, and St. Olaf answered >that it was not possible for a person to live more than once, because you >lived once, died once and were resurrected once on the Last Day. Then he >was overcome with emotion and rode away, because (in my view) what he was >saying was so much at conflict with the reality. > >Wolfe has a good grasp on all of this, as he shows in 'Devil' and also in >the Latro books. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >. > > > > >-- I am on vacation during the last week of August. I will get back to you after I return on Labor Day. Thanks, Ian Lamont Assistant Web Site Manager Harvard Alumni Affairs and Development Office 124 Mount Auburn Street Cambridge, MA 02138 Tel: (617) 495-8183 Fax: (617) 495-0521 -- --=====================_548759==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" <x-html>At 07:57 PM 8/26/02 -0400, you wrote: Message-ID: <004801c24cb7$be21af80$1f3dc6d8 at rclackey.stic.net> From: "Roy C. Lackey" <rclackey at stic.net> To: <urth at urth.net> Subject: Re: (urth) PEACE: 3 Misses Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 23:19:04 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; <x-tab> </x-tab>charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: urth at urth.net Matthew responding to me: >> I can make nothing of "Tyler". > >Not having read Peace I have no idea if there's any relevance but the word >can mean door or gate keeper. Archaic and obsolete except in Masonic >Lodges where the additional meaning of keeping out the uninitiated applies >and Tyler is a formal position. To tyle the lodge; bar the doors assured >that only the aurhorised are within. So, Helen Birkhead Tyler yields . . .? torch + shininghead (?) + gate keeper(?) flame-topped gate keeper? Like the cherubim with flaming swords at the gates of Eden, guarding the way to the tree of life? -Roy -- http://www.urth.net/ To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to urth-request at urth.net Message-ID: <14C3784DB7932F458F3A929D779546400235D648 at smtexmb02.siebel.com> From: "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes" <ddanehy at siebel.com> To: "'urth at urth.net'" <urth at urth.net> Subject: (urth) Coldhouse Banshee Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 09:27:00 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: urth at urth.net Good heavens ... Stone Ox has brought up a marvellous correspondence, and then missed something that ... well, I guess it isn't obvious because I never saw it before either, but somehow it jumped out of his posting at me: > Jack stays in the barn haunted by the banshee three nights. ...as does the coldhouse prank victim (Friday, Saturday, Sunday nights). Okay, then: making the banshee story as abstract as possible... J wants very badly a treasure in F's possession. F dislikes / looks down on J / regards J as a poor recipient for the treasure, but for some reason does not give an outright "No." Instead, he sets J to spend three nights in a place which should kill him. Now, one of the things the embedded stories in PEACE seem to do is to provide better or happier endings to some of the situations in Weer's life. So I am moved to speculate that the Coldhouse Prank was not a prank at all, but a deliberat attempt to keep a "real world" (Weer's reality) J from acquiring something that a "real world" F did not want him to have but could not deny him. To those for whom the book is fresher in their minds than it is in mine, then: Do any possible real-world F's and J's come to mind? The most obvious candidate for F would be Julius, who owns the barn / coldhouse... is this even plausible? And if so, who would be J? (Is this another candidate for when Den "really" died?) --Blattid -- http://www.urth.net/ To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to urth-request at urth.net Message-Id: <v03130302b9901add4af9@[209.179.251.152]> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 10:59:19 -0700 To: urth at urth.net From: Michael Andre-Driussi <mantis at siriusfiction.com> Subject: (urth) Coldhouse Den-die Reply-To: urth at urth.net Blattid, regarding the coldhouse prank death, wrote: >(Is this another candidate for when Den "really" died?) Well, er, yes and no. If Weer is lying about his age at the time (invalidating the big anchor for the current operating timeline), then the coldhouse death could be his own, just as he might be a dead boy next to his chemistry set. (And he would lie about his age ostensibly to distance himself from the prank if he was the perpetrator, too. In addition to lying about his age to avoid facing the fact that he himself died there.) But if Weer is not lying about his age, and the victim's details are true, then no, the death cannot be Weer's. =mantis= -- http://www.urth.net/ To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to urth-request at urth.net Message-ID: <14C3784DB7932F458F3A929D779546400235D64E at smtexmb02.siebel.com> From: "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes" <ddanehy at siebel.com> To: "'urth at urth.net'" <urth at urth.net> Subject: RE: (urth) Coldhouse Den-die Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 11:23:21 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: urth at urth.net > Blattid, regarding the coldhouse prank death, wrote: > >(Is this another candidate for when Den "really" died?) > > Well, er, yes and no. > > If Weer is lying about his age at the time (invalidating the > big anchor for the current operating timeline), then the > coldhouse death could be his own, just as he might be a > dead boy next to his chemistry set. Which was in fact my point ... This is just a goof, really, but it's a stfnal idea that I've played with many time and never come up with a good storyline for ... I've often had the idea of, well, if you can have multiple-sheaf futures, why not multiple- sheaf pasts? And then what if Alden, the Reasonably Friendly Ghost, actually has lived multiple versions of his life and died at several different points along the timeline ... ? It would certainly clear up (by making irrelevant) many of the inconsistencies in the storyline(s). So he died of a stroke, and he died playing with his chemistry set, and he died in the coldhouse prank ... Just a goof, as I said. But I'm dead serious about the coldhouse == the barn. --Blattid -- http://www.urth.net/ To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to urth-request at urth.net Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 18:27:21 +0000 (GMT) From: Josh Geller <dclxvi at dclxvi.best.vwh.net> To: urth at urth.net Subject: (urth) The Devil In A Forest and St. Olaf of Norway Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.40.0208261815230.8590-100000 at dclxvi.best.vwh.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: urth at urth.net The Devil In A Forest is perhaps a minor work, but an extremely interesting one. There's a hamlet in the woods, the woodcutters who are relics of a previous stage of civilization, a bandit who is a woodcutter aristocrat, a witch who knows the technology of the old civilization, megalithic ruins that are 'not a town' etc. This is one of the most valuable books for people trying to understand the old civilization of Europe. There's a story about King Olaf the Holy of Norway. See, it was generally known that he was a reincarnation of Olaf Geirstadtalf, who was buried in the mound at Geirstadt. There had been a prophecy to the effect, he had Olaf G.'s sword that came out of the mound etc. The problem was that St. Olaf was occupied with the forcible Christianization of Norway, and it sort of looked bad that a Christian king should be an incarnate elf. So they did a little stage play, where the King and some of his companions (who would also have been out of the mound, by the old way) went to Olaf G's mound on horseback and one of the companions asked the King if he didn't remember when they had been there before, and St. Olaf answered that it was not possible for a person to live more than once, because you lived once, died once and were resurrected once on the Last Day. Then he was overcome with emotion and rode away, because (in my view) what he was saying was so much at conflict with the reality. Wolfe has a good grasp on all of this, as he shows in 'Devil' and also in the Latro books. . -- http://www.urth.net/ To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to urth-request at urth.net </x-html> <html> I am on vacation during the last week of August. I will get back to you after I return on Labor Day. Thanks, Ian Lamont Assistant Web Site Manager Harvard Alumni Affairs and Development Office 124 Mount Auburn Street Cambridge, MA 02138 Tel: (617) 495-8183 Fax: (617) 495-0521</html> --=====================_548759==_.ALT--
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