Urth Net
Out of the office (was Re: Digest from urth@urth.net)
Ian Lamont · 03 Sep 2002, 12:59
· from urth-v0209.mbox · original
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archiver’s ? resolved into quotation marks and dashes. Those
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for. Email addresses are obscured here as they are everywhere else on the site,
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From: Ian Lamont <ian_lamont at harvard.edu> Subject: (urth) Out of the office (was Re: Digest from urth at urth.net) Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2002 08:59:10 -0400 Message-ID: <urth-v0209-1648 at digest.urth.net> X-Urthmirror-Source: http://www.urth.net/urth/archives/v0209/1648.txt.shtml MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=====================_550221==_.ALT" --=====================_550221==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 07:57 PM 8/30/02 -0400, you wrote: >From: "James Wynn" <crushtv at HotPOP.com> >To: <urth at urth.net> >Subject: (urth) FW: Elucidations of the Long Sun:Hyacinth >Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 09:31:57 -0500 >Message-ID: <PLEFLJEIBGPANKPDCAMPOEKGCEAA.crushtv at HotPOP.com> >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="us-ascii" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Reply-To: urth at urth.net > >The following is my response to A. Bin Talal who contacted me off-list but >has offered of his own accord for my response to be posted on-list. >------------------------------------------------------------------ >Thanks so much for your comments. > >You say: >In Thelxepeia's Mirrors you assert that Hyacinth is male chem, your >arguments for Hyacinth being a chem are very compelling, but do not explain >how she became Viron's top prostitute. > >Response >Well, the story is somewhat vague on exactly how that occurred. It probably >began while she was sold by her (I'll refer to Hyacinth in the feminine) >father to be a housemaid. She was attractive and she began to make money for >sexual favors. From there, she began to take on the necessary modifications >to make even more money. > >You say: >The other arguments about overpowering the pilot could be taken as clues she >is not human but a chem, a chem female should be stronger then a human > >Response >True, and I consider her over-powering the pilot to be evidence that she is >chem - not male. Actually, Marble DOES over-power Musk. This brings up a >point that I should segregate those arguments that Hyacinth is a MALE chem >from those that show she is MERELY chem. > >You say: >The arguments for her being a male are alas unsound, you seem to use >circular logic, she is a male because of 'thematic requirement'(which you >assert there aren't any), the story about Apollo's lover and the church, but >she represent that theme because she is a male!! in short you assume she is >male, then conclude she is male, your conclusion is correct but you can't >generalize it (I took a course on formal logic, never thinking I will be >using it. > >Response >I don't consider my arguments circular. I consider the story of Hyacinthus >is to be a thematic *allowance* that she "could" reasonably be male but not >a requirement. If one accepts that Hyacinth is chem, then the concept of >homosexuality might just as reasonably be satisfied by Silk's stated >doppelganger relationship with Sgt. Sand (in Blood's house in Calde of the >Long Sun). On the other hand, that would still not be homosexuality since >chems are sexually divergent like bios. Still, Wolfe *could* have used Silks >"mentoring" relationship with Horn on the airship to incorporate that aspect >of the Apollo-Hyacinthus relationship - Wolfe does a lot of character >syncretism in the sub textual themes of the Long Sun (I haven't yet >published my essay on Silk and Auk playing duo roles as Hephaestus and as >Aristaeus, or how Mint, Marble, and Rose merge into the Myrtle-nymphs, but I >will after I finish reading Robert Graves' "White Goddess.") > >My point is that while it "fits" for Hyacinth to be male, she doesn't NEED >to be as IMO Incus NEEDS to be female because of the roll she plays >regarding Quetzal (the demon-Dionysus) and the roll she plays in the >Aristaeus story (not that Incus particularly needs to be a female, but in >the sense that only a female could play those roles). > >The most straight-forward clues that Hyacinth is male (there are weaker >ones) are the following: >1. Hyacinth's statement: >"You know what I look like without all this [make-up and clothes]?...Like a >boy, only with tits down to my waist." >2. In the Silks conversation with Horn on the airship, discussing why he >tried to kill himself, Silk talks about Marble's lie about being Moly and >the general plight of the chem population *due to the lack* of female chems. >Silk further points out, "Some male chems were artisans and farm laborers, >from what I know of them, and a few were servants - butlers and so forth." >3. In the same conversation, Horn also says that Hyacinth behaves physically >weak and in a female-identifiable manner, because she wants Silk to be >attracted to her. Just as the fierce lynx, Lion (a female with a male >name-note that this is specifically pointed out) pretends to be kittenish >with Mucor. > >Again, thank you so much for your interest, your arguments really made me >think.. > > > > >-- >From: "James Wynn" <crushtv at HotPOP.com> >To: <urth at urth.net> >Subject: RE: RE: (urth) Crush's Page and Quetzal >Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 10:15:12 -0500 >Message-ID: <PLEFLJEIBGPANKPDCAMPOEKICEAA.crushtv at HotPOP.com> >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Reply-To: urth at urth.net > >After checking my sources, here's my response to Robert Borski's questions >(thanks again Mr. Borski): >Robert Borski said > >According to you she's a chem. So does this mean that she fabricated the >story about her father being a head clerk at the Juzgado? (Newt by my >reckoning.) And again, is she lying (or implanted with false memories) when >she tells Auk that her father is a "pig's arse"? > >My response: >No and no. Actually Silk says that he went to meet him. I sure her father is >NOT Newt. Newt is a commissioner at the Juzgado in charge of the Guard >finances. Hyacinth's father is a "head clerk" of the Fisc. Silk also met >with an "officer" of the Fisc while he was there. Clearly her father is well >down the chain of command. BTW: see the entry on Newt in "Things of the Long >Sun". > >There's no reason that her father could not be a chemical person. And as >Silk discovered in Nightside, a talus can be bribed. What would a talus do >with money? Marble explains in Exodus, "The same thing anyone would do with >money, dear" So chems are not essentially different from bios when it comes >to corrupt conduct. Is it so amazing that a chem parent would prostitute his >child for money when bios sometimes do it? > >Actually, the well-flagged concept that chems and taluses can be corrupted >for money is sitting around in the story like an unfired gun in a play. I've >fired it by tapping Hyacinth and her father as examples. > >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >---------- >Robert Borski said >And who is the woman described as her dead mother that Hyacinth sees at >Mainframe? Nettle seems to know her (I've theorized elsewhere she's Lime) > >My response: >The woman was Hyacinth's mother. It is easier for me to imagine how chems >would "go to Mainframe" when they die than it is for me to see how it is >done with bios. As for Nettle knowing her that's an interesting question, >but unless her mother can be clearly identified with a bio female it doesn't >change anything. I'm curious about your "Lime" theory. I don't find it >explained in the Urth archives. In the archives I DID see you make a >reference to a snide comment by Wolfe regarding Hyacinth's mother in a "LS >question list" - what is this? > >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >-- >Robert Borski said >Simply put, are there really that many chems running around outside the >military and the religious orders, and are they as prone and subject to >toxic parenting as your average bios? > >My response: >Well there's not that many chems running around outside the military -- >relatively. Marble is the only one I'm aware of in a religious order. >Non-military chems are rare relative to when the Whorl left Urth, but they >are not non-existent. No adults in Viron remarks on chems as if they'd never >seen one before. I suppose if you or I were to walk the streets of Viron, we >would no doubt think we saw chems everywhere we looked. > >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >-- >Robert Borski said >Since you're speculating about someone whose life history does not end with >SHORT SUN, you also need to read Wolfe's follow-up series because there's an >event in there that makes your theory even less tenable. I won't spoil it >for you; suffice it to say I don't think rust is the causative agent. > > >I cannot express the pleasure I get from these e-mails. > > -- Crush > > > > >-- >From: "James Wynn" <crushtv at HotPOP.com> >To: <urth at urth.net> >Subject: RE: RE: (urth) Crush's Page and Quetzal >Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 10:35:29 -0500 >Message-ID: <PLEFLJEIBGPANKPDCAMPEEKJCEAA.crushtv at HotPOP.com> >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Reply-To: urth at urth.net > >I intended to clip the following Boski question from my response since I >answered it in my other recent posting. Failing to clip it makes it look >like I'm being sarcastic when that was NOT my intention. > > >Robert Borski said >Since you're speculating about someone whose life history does not end with >SHORT SUN, you also need to read Wolfe's follow-up series because there's an >event in there that makes your theory even less tenable. I won't spoil it >for you; suffice it to say I don't think rust is the causative agent. > > > > > >-- >Message-ID: <20020830203403.90592.qmail at web14410.mail.yahoo.com> >Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 13:34:03 -0700 (PDT) >From: Jerry Friedman <jerry_friedman at yahoo.com> >Subject: Re: (urth) FW: Elucidations of the Long Sun:Hyacinth >To: urth at urth.net >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >Reply-To: urth at urth.net > > >--- James Wynn <crushtv at HotPOP.com> wrote: > > The following is my response to A. Bin Talal who contacted me off-list > > but > > has offered of his own accord for my response to be posted on-list. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Thanks so much for your comments. >... > > > You say: > > The other arguments about overpowering the pilot could be taken as clues > > she > > is not human but a chem, a chem female should be stronger then a human > > > > Response > > True, and I consider her over-powering the pilot to be evidence that she > > is > > chem - not male. > >Why is that inconsistent with her being a healthy young human woman who >has experience at fighting? She takes the pilot by surprise, ramming her >thumbs into her (the pilot's) eyes and kicking her knees until she falls >down. Seems quite reasonable to me. Silk thinks Hyacinth blinded the >pilot, but Chenille (I think) disagrees. This is evidence that Hyacinth >is *not* a chem--someone with superhuman strength could (I imagine) >obviously blind a person this way by breaking her eyeballs, and probably >obviously cripple her knees as well. > > > Actually, Marble DOES over-power Musk. This brings up a > > point that I should segregate those arguments that Hyacinth is a MALE > > chem > > from those that show she is MERELY chem. > >Quite true. >... > > > The most straight-forward clues that Hyacinth is male (there are weaker > > ones) are the following: > > 1. Hyacinth's statement: > > "You know what I look like without all this [make-up and > > clothes]?...Like a > > boy, only with tits down to my waist." > >She doesn't mean she has a penis. Silk would have spotted that (and then >would have nicknamed Hyacinth "Pinto"). I don't think this comment is >particularly amazing for a slender young woman who has had a breast >enhancement and tends to speak of her appearance deprecatingly. >Incidentally, it brings up what I think is one of the stronger criticisms >of your theory: would Silk really have sex with someone he knew was a >chem, and if not, could he really be fooled? > > > 2. In the Silks conversation with Horn on the airship, discussing why he > > tried to kill himself, Silk talks about Marble's lie about being Moly > > and > > the general plight of the chem population *due to the lack* of female > > chems. > > Silk further points out, "Some male chems were artisans and farm > > laborers, > > from what I know of them, and a few were servants - butlers and so > > forth." > >I don't see this as a straightforward clue. In fact, I don't see it as >evidence at all. > > > 3. In the same conversation, Horn also says that Hyacinth behaves > > physically > > weak and in a female-identifiable manner, because she wants Silk to be > > attracted to her. Just as the fierce lynx, Lion (a female with a male > > name-note that this is specifically pointed out) pretends to be > > kittenish > > with Mucor. > >This seems to be completely consistent with her being a tough young woman >thanks to the life at Orchid's that Chenille describes. > >By far the best clue I see that Hyacinth *could* be a chem is her name, as >you pointed out. But I see nothing to contradict the obvious >interpretation that she's a bio. > >Speaking of Chenille and names, this seems like a good time to restate my >theory that Chenille, who has an ambiguous name, could be a chromosmal >male with testicular feminization syndrome (perhaps Tussah's failed >attempt at a male heir?). >... > >Jerry Friedman > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes >http://finance.yahoo.com > >-- I am on vacation during the last week of August. I will get back to you after I return on Labor Day. Thanks, Ian Lamont Assistant Web Site Manager Harvard Alumni Affairs and Development Office 124 Mount Auburn Street Cambridge, MA 02138 Tel: (617) 495-8183 Fax: (617) 495-0521 -- --=====================_550221==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" <x-html>At 07:57 PM 8/30/02 -0400, you wrote: From: "James Wynn" <crushtv at HotPOP.com> To: <urth at urth.net> Subject: (urth) FW: Elucidations of the Long Sun:Hyacinth Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 09:31:57 -0500 Message-ID: <PLEFLJEIBGPANKPDCAMPOEKGCEAA.crushtv at HotPOP.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; <x-tab> </x-tab>charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: urth at urth.net The following is my response to A. Bin Talal who contacted me off-list but has offered of his own accord for my response to be posted on-list. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks so much for your comments. You say: In Thelxepeia's Mirrors you assert that Hyacinth is male chem, your arguments for Hyacinth being a chem are very compelling, but do not explain how she became Viron's top prostitute. Response Well, the story is somewhat vague on exactly how that occurred. It probably began while she was sold by her (I'll refer to Hyacinth in the feminine) father to be a housemaid. She was attractive and she began to make money for sexual favors. From there, she began to take on the necessary modifications to make even more money. You say: The other arguments about overpowering the pilot could be taken as clues she is not human but a chem, a chem female should be stronger then a human Response True, and I consider her over-powering the pilot to be evidence that she is chem - not male. Actually, Marble DOES over-power Musk. This brings up a point that I should segregate those arguments that Hyacinth is a MALE chem from those that show she is MERELY chem. You say: The arguments for her being a male are alas unsound, you seem to use circular logic, she is a male because of 'thematic requirement'(which you assert there aren't any), the story about Apollo's lover and the church, but she represent that theme because she is a male!! in short you assume she is male, then conclude she is male, your conclusion is correct but you can't generalize it (I took a course on formal logic, never thinking I will be using it. Response I don't consider my arguments circular. I consider the story of Hyacinthus is to be a thematic *allowance* that she "could" reasonably be male but not a requirement. If one accepts that Hyacinth is chem, then the concept of homosexuality might just as reasonably be satisfied by Silk's stated doppelganger relationship with Sgt. Sand (in Blood's house in Calde of the Long Sun). On the other hand, that would still not be homosexuality since chems are sexually divergent like bios. Still, Wolfe *could* have used Silks "mentoring" relationship with Horn on the airship to incorporate that aspect of the Apollo-Hyacinthus relationship - Wolfe does a lot of character syncretism in the sub textual themes of the Long Sun (I haven't yet published my essay on Silk and Auk playing duo roles as Hephaestus and as Aristaeus, or how Mint, Marble, and Rose merge into the Myrtle-nymphs, but I will after I finish reading Robert Graves' "White Goddess.") My point is that while it "fits" for Hyacinth to be male, she doesn't NEED to be as IMO Incus NEEDS to be female because of the roll she plays regarding Quetzal (the demon-Dionysus) and the roll she plays in the Aristaeus story (not that Incus particularly needs to be a female, but in the sense that only a female could play those roles). The most straight-forward clues that Hyacinth is male (there are weaker ones) are the following: 1. Hyacinth's statement: "You know what I look like without all this [make-up and clothes]?...Like a boy, only with tits down to my waist." 2. In the Silks conversation with Horn on the airship, discussing why he tried to kill himself, Silk talks about Marble's lie about being Moly and the general plight of the chem population *due to the lack* of female chems. Silk further points out, "Some male chems were artisans and farm laborers, from what I know of them, and a few were servants - butlers and so forth." 3. In the same conversation, Horn also says that Hyacinth behaves physically weak and in a female-identifiable manner, because she wants Silk to be attracted to her. Just as the fierce lynx, Lion (a female with a male name-note that this is specifically pointed out) pretends to be kittenish with Mucor. Again, thank you so much for your interest, your arguments really made me think.. -- http://www.urth.net/ To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to urth-request at urth.net From: "James Wynn" <crushtv at HotPOP.com> To: <urth at urth.net> Subject: RE: RE: (urth) Crush's Page and Quetzal Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 10:15:12 -0500 Message-ID: <PLEFLJEIBGPANKPDCAMPOEKICEAA.crushtv at HotPOP.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; <x-tab> </x-tab>charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: urth at urth.net After checking my sources, here's my response to Robert Borski's questions (thanks again Mr. Borski): Robert Borski said According to you she's a chem. So does this mean that she fabricated the story about her father being a head clerk at the Juzgado? (Newt by my reckoning.) And again, is she lying (or implanted with false memories) when she tells Auk that her father is a "pig's arse"? My response: No and no. Actually Silk says that he went to meet him. I sure her father is NOT Newt. Newt is a commissioner at the Juzgado in charge of the Guard finances. Hyacinth's father is a "head clerk" of the Fisc. Silk also met with an "officer" of the Fisc while he was there. Clearly her father is well down the chain of command. BTW: see the entry on Newt in "Things of the Long Sun". There's no reason that her father could not be a chemical person. And as Silk discovered in Nightside, a talus can be bribed. What would a talus do with money? Marble explains in Exodus, "The same thing anyone would do with money, dear" So chems are not essentially different from bios when it comes to corrupt conduct. Is it so amazing that a chem parent would prostitute his child for money when bios sometimes do it? Actually, the well-flagged concept that chems and taluses can be corrupted for money is sitting around in the story like an unfired gun in a play. I've fired it by tapping Hyacinth and her father as examples. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- Robert Borski said And who is the woman described as her dead mother that Hyacinth sees at Mainframe? Nettle seems to know her (I've theorized elsewhere she's Lime) My response: The woman was Hyacinth's mother. It is easier for me to imagine how chems would "go to Mainframe" when they die than it is for me to see how it is done with bios. As for Nettle knowing her that's an interesting question, but unless her mother can be clearly identified with a bio female it doesn't change anything. I'm curious about your "Lime" theory. I don't find it explained in the Urth archives. In the archives I DID see you make a reference to a snide comment by Wolfe regarding Hyacinth's mother in a "LS question list" - what is this? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Robert Borski said Simply put, are there really that many chems running around outside the military and the religious orders, and are they as prone and subject to toxic parenting as your average bios? My response: Well there's not that many chems running around outside the military -- relatively. Marble is the only one I'm aware of in a religious order. Non-military chems are rare relative to when the Whorl left Urth, but they are not non-existent. No adults in Viron remarks on chems as if they'd never seen one before. I suppose if you or I were to walk the streets of Viron, we would no doubt think we saw chems everywhere we looked. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Robert Borski said Since you're speculating about someone whose life history does not end with SHORT SUN, you also need to read Wolfe's follow-up series because there's an event in there that makes your theory even less tenable. I won't spoil it for you; suffice it to say I don't think rust is the causative agent. I cannot express the pleasure I get from these e-mails. -- Crush -- http://www.urth.net/ To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to urth-request at urth.net From: "James Wynn" <crushtv at HotPOP.com> To: <urth at urth.net> Subject: RE: RE: (urth) Crush's Page and Quetzal Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 10:35:29 -0500 Message-ID: <PLEFLJEIBGPANKPDCAMPEEKJCEAA.crushtv at HotPOP.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; <x-tab> </x-tab>charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: urth at urth.net I intended to clip the following Boski question from my response since I answered it in my other recent posting. Failing to clip it makes it look like I'm being sarcastic when that was NOT my intention. Robert Borski said Since you're speculating about someone whose life history does not end with SHORT SUN, you also need to read Wolfe's follow-up series because there's an event in there that makes your theory even less tenable. I won't spoil it for you; suffice it to say I don't think rust is the causative agent. -- http://www.urth.net/ To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to urth-request at urth.net Message-ID: <20020830203403.90592.qmail at web14410.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 13:34:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Jerry Friedman <jerry_friedman at yahoo.com> Subject: Re: (urth) FW: Elucidations of the Long Sun:Hyacinth To: urth at urth.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Reply-To: urth at urth.net --- James Wynn <crushtv at HotPOP.com> wrote: > The following is my response to A. Bin Talal who contacted me off-list > but > has offered of his own accord for my response to be posted on-list. > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > Thanks so much for your comments. ... > You say: > The other arguments about overpowering the pilot could be taken as clues > she > is not human but a chem, a chem female should be stronger then a human > > Response > True, and I consider her over-powering the pilot to be evidence that she > is > chem - not male. Why is that inconsistent with her being a healthy young human woman who has experience at fighting? She takes the pilot by surprise, ramming her thumbs into her (the pilot's) eyes and kicking her knees until she falls down. Seems quite reasonable to me. Silk thinks Hyacinth blinded the pilot, but Chenille (I think) disagrees. This is evidence that Hyacinth is *not* a chem--someone with superhuman strength could (I imagine) obviously blind a person this way by breaking her eyeballs, and probably obviously cripple her knees as well. > Actually, Marble DOES over-power Musk. This brings up a > point that I should segregate those arguments that Hyacinth is a MALE > chem > from those that show she is MERELY chem. Quite true. ... > The most straight-forward clues that Hyacinth is male (there are weaker > ones) are the following: > 1. Hyacinth's statement: > "You know what I look like without all this [make-up and > clothes]?...Like a > boy, only with tits down to my waist." She doesn't mean she has a penis. Silk would have spotted that (and then would have nicknamed Hyacinth "Pinto"). I don't think this comment is particularly amazing for a slender young woman who has had a breast enhancement and tends to speak of her appearance deprecatingly. Incidentally, it brings up what I think is one of the stronger criticisms of your theory: would Silk really have sex with someone he knew was a chem, and if not, could he really be fooled? > 2. In the Silks conversation with Horn on the airship, discussing why he > tried to kill himself, Silk talks about Marble's lie about being Moly > and > the general plight of the chem population *due to the lack* of female > chems. > Silk further points out, "Some male chems were artisans and farm > laborers, > from what I know of them, and a few were servants - butlers and so > forth." I don't see this as a straightforward clue. In fact, I don't see it as evidence at all. > 3. In the same conversation, Horn also says that Hyacinth behaves > physically > weak and in a female-identifiable manner, because she wants Silk to be > attracted to her. Just as the fierce lynx, Lion (a female with a male > name-note that this is specifically pointed out) pretends to be > kittenish > with Mucor. This seems to be completely consistent with her being a tough young woman thanks to the life at Orchid's that Chenille describes. By far the best clue I see that Hyacinth *could* be a chem is her name, as you pointed out. But I see nothing to contradict the obvious interpretation that she's a bio. Speaking of Chenille and names, this seems like a good time to restate my theory that Chenille, who has an ambiguous name, could be a chromosmal male with testicular feminization syndrome (perhaps Tussah's failed attempt at a male heir?). ... Jerry Friedman __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com -- http://www.urth.net/ To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to urth-request at urth.net </x-html> <html> I am on vacation during the last week of August. I will get back to you after I return on Labor Day. Thanks, Ian Lamont Assistant Web Site Manager Harvard Alumni Affairs and Development Office 124 Mount Auburn Street Cambridge, MA 02138 Tel: (617) 495-8183 Fax: (617) 495-0521</html> --=====================_550221==_.ALT--
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