Out of the office (was Re: Digest from urth@urth.net)

Ian Lamont · 03 Sep 2002, 12:59 · from urth-v0209.mbox · original
This is the message as the crawl holds it, before anything here touched it. What the conversation shows has been through ingest: transfer encodings decoded, attachments dropped, quote markers repaired, and the archiver’s ? resolved into quotation marks and dashes. Those repairs are judgements and some of them are wrong, which is what this page is for. Email addresses are obscured here as they are everywhere else on the site, so it is before our repairs rather than byte for byte.
From: Ian Lamont <ian_lamont at harvard.edu>
Subject: (urth) Out of the office (was Re: Digest from  urth at urth.net)
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2002 08:59:10 -0400
Message-ID: <urth-v0209-1650 at digest.urth.net>
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At 07:57 PM 9/2/02 -0400, you wrote:
>Message-ID: <019e01c2521c$941cea00$d5456c42@akt>
>From: "Alice K. Turner" <aturner6 at nyc.rr.com>
>To: <urth at urth.net>
>Subject: Re: (urth) Newt's main referent
>Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2002 21:03:41 -0400
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain;
>         charset="iso-8859-1"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>Reply-To: urth at urth.net
>
>Good call, Nick. Some major convention (WorldCon, I guess) was held in, I
>think, Atlanta in the 80s and Newt, for reasons that I think had to do with
>Bruce Sterling, was the banquet speaker. Though I'm not much of a
>conventioneer, I attended this (my parents lived in Atlanta) as a friend of
>Lucius Shepard, and, though I never met him there, I'm pretty sure Wolfe was
>on hand. I'd only barely heard of Gingrich at that point. But, among the
>more politicially minded, there was much furor, and a contingent, including
>Lucius (but not me), ostentatiously walked out of the banquet as Gingrich
>was introduced. Can't remember much about the speech or the evening
>otherwise except that both were boring--but that you expect. Gingrich seemed
>more menacing later, but that was the explicit SF connection. (Sorry to be
>so vague on particulars, but I've sort of accidentally attended a few
>conventions or parts of them; the only ones I remember well are those I'd
>planned in advance, and this was a last-minute thing--if it wasn't Atlanta I
>apologize, but it was somewhere else I just happened to be for other
>reasons.)
>
>-alga
>
>
> > Considering when EXODUS FROM THE LONG SUN was being
> > written (1994-5), Councillor Newt has a pretty obvious
> > real-life referent: Newt Gingrich, elected Speaker of
> > the US House of Representatives after the unexpected
> > Republican congressional election victories of
> > November 1994. From what we see of Newt, the
> > resemblance is pretty profound...
> >
> > --Nick Gevers.
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Everything you'll ever need on one web page
> > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
> > http://uk.my.yahoo.com
> >
> > --
> >
>
>
>
>--
>Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 01:16:54 -0400 (EDT)
>From: Michael Straight <straight at email.unc.edu>
>To: urth at urth.net
>Subject: Re: (urth) Newt's main referent
>Message-ID: <Pine.A41.4.44+UNC.0209020103420.26648-100000 at login0.isis.unc.edu>
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
>Reply-To: urth at urth.net
>
>On Sun, 1 Sep 2002, Alice K. Turner wrote:
>
> > Good call, Nick. Some major convention (WorldCon, I guess) was held in, I
> > think, Atlanta in the 80s and Newt, for reasons that I think had to do with
> > Bruce Sterling, was the banquet speaker.
>
>Also, at the time, Newt was one of the most famous science-fiction writers
>in America (along with William Shatner and, arguably, Stephen King).
>
>-Rostrum
>
>
>
>--
>Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 01:29:43 -0700
>From: maa32 <maa32 at dana.ucc.nau.edu>
>Subject: (urth) male hyacinth
>Sender: maa32 <maa32 at dana.ucc.nau.edu>
>To: urth at urth.net
>Message-id: <3D737498 at webmail.nau.edu>
>MIME-version: 1.0
>Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
>Reply-To: urth at urth.net
>
>A couple months ago I posted on the evidence for a male hyacinth, and I was
>taken aback to discover that someone else thought that up independently - it
>was kind of a joke.  Let me briefly go over why I thought so: right before
>Silk meets Hyacinth for the first time, he finds all kinds of statues of boy
>toys for the gods: Ganymede and Catamitus, both boy lovers that I normally
>associate with Musk.  But Hyacinthus is the same kind of mythic figure: male
>lover of Apollo, stricken dead by the jealous wind.  But instead of Musk, he
>immediately meets Hyacinth, who has fake breasts.  Then later, in Calde of 
>the
>Long Sun ,Patera Quetzal, when Silk claims that he slept with a woman, 
>says he
>doesn't believe that his augur has done that.  It sounds like nothing, but
>Wolfe has a ton of those double entendres in his work.  I'm just surprised
>that someone else came up with the same thematic idea - the evidence isn't as
>sketchy as the evidence that suggest that Patera Pike is Blood's father, but
>it's pretty sketchy.  I don't see the chem part as convincing, but I think
>Hyacinth could certainly be an ex-male who had a little transformation 
>enacted
>and it explains the sterility of Silk's relationship.
>I don't know how seriously to take these things, really.  Not as seriously as
>a take a lot of the other stuff I post.
>Marc Aramini
>
>
>
>--
>From: matthew.malthouse at guardian.co.uk
>To: urth at urth.net
>Message-ID: <80256C28.0036FA7B.00 at ldnmta01.guardian.co.uk>
>Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 10:34:24 +0100
>Subject: Re: FW: (urth) FW: Elucidations of the Long Sun:Hyacinth
>Mime-Version: 1.0
>Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>Reply-To: urth at urth.net
>
>
>
>
>On 31/08/2002 19:24:14 Andy Robertson wrote:
>
> >Is it really possible that all the discussions on this list have been
>this
> >loony, and it is only now I come back after some time away that I am able
>to
> >judge them properly?   :-)
>
>A break does provide one with perspective, does it not?  ;-)
>
>Matthew
>
>
>
>--
>Message-ID: <007301c25251$02914a60$f3919ed9@abcomcus>
>From: "Andy Robertson" <andywrobertson at clara.co.uk>
>To: <urth at urth.net>
>Subject: Re: FW: (urth) FW: Elucidations of the Long Sun:Hyacinth
>Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 08:18:54 +0100
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain;
>         charset="iso-8859-1"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>Reply-To: urth at urth.net
>
>Ah well, I love it anyway.   But the idea that Hyacinth is a transsexual bio
>does seem slightly more probable, I confess: though I really see no need for
>it.
>
>     hartshorn
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <matthew.malthouse at guardian.co.uk>
>To: <urth at urth.net>
>Sent: Monday, September 02, 2002 10:34 AM
>Subject: Re: FW: (urth) FW: Elucidations of the Long Sun:Hyacinth
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> > On 31/08/2002 19:24:14 Andy Robertson wrote:
> >
> > >Is it really possible that all the discussions on this list have been
> > this
> > >loony, and it is only now I come back after some time away that I am able
> > to
> > >judge them properly?   :-)
> >
> > A break does provide one with perspective, does it not?  ;-)
> >
> > Matthew
> >
>
>
>--
>From: matthew.malthouse at guardian.co.uk
>To: urth at urth.net
>Message-ID: <80256C28.0038FC81.00 at ldnmta01.guardian.co.uk>
>Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 10:56:20 +0100
>Subject: Re: (urth) male hyacinth
>Mime-Version: 1.0
>Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>Reply-To: urth at urth.net
>
>
>
>
>On 02/09/2002 09:29:43 maa32 wrote:
>
> >A couple months ago I posted on the evidence for a male hyacinth, and I
>was
> >taken aback to discover that someone else thought that up independently -
>it
> >was kind of a joke.  Let me briefly go over why I thought so: right
>before
> >Silk meets Hyacinth for the first time, he finds all kinds of statues of
>boy
> >toys for the gods: Ganymede and Catamitus, both boy lovers that I
>normally
> >associate with Musk.  But Hyacinthus is the same kind of mythic figure:
>male
> >lover of Apollo, stricken dead by the jealous wind.  But instead of Musk,
>he
> >immediately meets Hyacinth, who has fake breasts.
>
>I too the statuary, Hyacinth's potential androgeny etc as re-inforcement
>of Musk's character and lifestyle.  I'm far from convinced that - even
>with Wolfe's infamous multi-layered work - there's any need to see more to
>it than that.
>
>If one posits that Hyacinth is ex-male, male , chem male or female one has
>to answer what purpose it serves.  More what purpose would it serve to
>have Silk fall in love with such a being.  That would seem contrary to
>Wolfe's normal path in such matters and would require explanation.
>
>Matthew
>
>
>
>--
I am on vacation during the last week of August. I will get back to you 
after I return on Labor Day.

Thanks,

Ian Lamont
Assistant Web Site Manager
Harvard Alumni Affairs and Development Office
124 Mount Auburn Street
Cambridge, MA 02138
Tel: (617) 495-8183
Fax: (617) 495-0521

-- 
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<x-html>At 07:57 PM 9/2/02 -0400, you wrote:
Message-ID:
<019e01c2521c$941cea00$d5456c42@akt>
From: "Alice K. Turner" 
<aturner6 at nyc.rr.com>
To: <urth at urth.net>
Subject: Re: (urth) Newt's main referent
Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2002 21:03:41 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
<x-tab>        </x-tab>charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Reply-To: urth at urth.net

Good call, Nick. Some major convention (WorldCon, I guess) was held
in, I
think, Atlanta in the 80s and Newt, for reasons that I think had to
do with
Bruce Sterling, was the banquet speaker. Though I'm not much of
a
conventioneer, I attended this (my parents lived in Atlanta) as a
friend of
Lucius Shepard, and, though I never met him there, I'm pretty sure
Wolfe was
on hand. I'd only barely heard of Gingrich at that point. But, among
the
more politicially minded, there was much furor, and a contingent,
including
Lucius (but not me), ostentatiously walked out of the banquet as
Gingrich
was introduced. Can't remember much about the speech or the
evening
otherwise except that both were boring--but that you expect.
Gingrich seemed
more menacing later, but that was the explicit SF connection. (Sorry
to be
so vague on particulars, but I've sort of accidentally attended a
few
conventions or parts of them; the only ones I remember well are
those I'd
planned in advance, and this was a last-minute thing--if it wasn't
Atlanta I
apologize, but it was somewhere else I just happened to be for
other
reasons.)

-alga


> Considering when EXODUS FROM THE LONG SUN was being
> written (1994-5), Councillor Newt has a pretty obvious
> real-life referent: Newt Gingrich, elected Speaker of
> the US House of Representatives after the unexpected
> Republican congressional election victories of
> November 1994. From what we see of Newt, the
> resemblance is pretty profound...
>
> --Nick Gevers.
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Everything you'll ever need on one web page
> from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
>
http://uk.my.yahoo.com
>
> --
http://www.urth.net/
> To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to
urth-request at urth.net
>



-- 
http://www.urth.net/
To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to
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Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 01:16:54 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Straight <straight at email.unc.edu>
To: urth at urth.net
Subject: Re: (urth) Newt's main referent
Message-ID:
<Pine.A41.4.44+UNC.0209020103420.26648-100000 at login0.isis.unc.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Reply-To: urth at urth.net

On Sun, 1 Sep 2002, Alice K. Turner wrote:

> Good call, Nick. Some major convention (WorldCon, I guess) was
held in, I
> think, Atlanta in the 80s and Newt, for reasons that I think
had to do with
> Bruce Sterling, was the banquet speaker.

Also, at the time, Newt was one of the most famous science-fiction
writers
in America (along with William Shatner and, arguably, Stephen
King).

-Rostrum



-- 
http://www.urth.net/
To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to
urth-request at urth.net
Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 01:29:43 -0700
From: maa32 <maa32 at dana.ucc.nau.edu>
Subject: (urth) male hyacinth
Sender: maa32 <maa32 at dana.ucc.nau.edu>
To: urth at urth.net
Message-id: <3D737498 at webmail.nau.edu>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Reply-To: urth at urth.net

A couple months ago I posted on the evidence for a male hyacinth,
and I was 
taken aback to discover that someone else thought that up
independently - it 
was kind of a joke.  Let me briefly go over why I thought so:
right before 
Silk meets Hyacinth for the first time, he finds all kinds of
statues of boy 
toys for the gods: Ganymede and Catamitus, both boy lovers that I
normally 
associate with Musk.  But Hyacinthus is the same kind of mythic
figure: male 
lover of Apollo, stricken dead by the jealous wind.  But
instead of Musk, he 
immediately meets Hyacinth, who has fake breasts.  Then later,
in Calde of the 
Long Sun ,Patera Quetzal, when Silk claims that he slept with a
woman, says he 
doesn't believe that his augur has done that.  It sounds like
nothing, but 
Wolfe has a ton of those double entendres in his work.  I'm
just surprised 
that someone else came up with the same thematic idea - the evidence
isn't as 
sketchy as the evidence that suggest that Patera Pike is Blood's
father, but 
it's pretty sketchy.  I don't see the chem part as convincing,
but I think 
Hyacinth could certainly be an ex-male who had a little
transformation enacted 
and it explains the sterility of Silk's relationship.
I don't know how seriously to take these things, really.  Not
as seriously as 
a take a lot of the other stuff I post.
Marc Aramini



-- 
http://www.urth.net/
To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to
urth-request at urth.net
From: matthew.malthouse at guardian.co.uk
To: urth at urth.net
Message-ID:
<80256C28.0036FA7B.00 at ldnmta01.guardian.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 10:34:24 +0100
Subject: Re: FW: (urth) FW: Elucidations of the Long
Sun:Hyacinth
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Reply-To: urth at urth.net




On 31/08/2002 19:24:14 Andy Robertson wrote:

>Is it really possible that all the discussions on this list have
been
this
>loony, and it is only now I come back after some time away that
I am able
to
>judge them properly?   :-)

A break does provide one with perspective, does it not? 
;-)

Matthew



-- 
http://www.urth.net/
To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to
urth-request at urth.net
Message-ID: <007301c25251$02914a60$f3919ed9@abcomcus>
From: "Andy Robertson"
<andywrobertson at clara.co.uk>
To: <urth at urth.net>
Subject: Re: FW: (urth) FW: Elucidations of the Long
Sun:Hyacinth
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 08:18:54 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
<x-tab>        </x-tab>charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Reply-To: urth at urth.net

Ah well, I love it anyway.   But the idea that Hyacinth is
a transsexual bio
does seem slightly more probable, I confess: though I really see no
need for
it.

    hartshorn



----- Original Message -----
From: <matthew.malthouse at guardian.co.uk>
To: <urth at urth.net>
Sent: Monday, September 02, 2002 10:34 AM
Subject: Re: FW: (urth) FW: Elucidations of the Long
Sun:Hyacinth


>
>
>
> On 31/08/2002 19:24:14 Andy Robertson wrote:
>
> >Is it really possible that all the discussions on this list
have been
> this
> >loony, and it is only now I come back after some time away
that I am able
> to
> >judge them properly?   :-)
>
> A break does provide one with perspective, does it not? 
;-)
>
> Matthew
>


-- 
http://www.urth.net/
To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to
urth-request at urth.net
From: matthew.malthouse at guardian.co.uk
To: urth at urth.net
Message-ID:
<80256C28.0038FC81.00 at ldnmta01.guardian.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 10:56:20 +0100
Subject: Re: (urth) male hyacinth
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Reply-To: urth at urth.net




On 02/09/2002 09:29:43 maa32 wrote:

>A couple months ago I posted on the evidence for a male
hyacinth, and I
was
>taken aback to discover that someone else thought that up
independently -
it
>was kind of a joke.  Let me briefly go over why I thought
so: right
before
>Silk meets Hyacinth for the first time, he finds all kinds of
statues of
boy
>toys for the gods: Ganymede and Catamitus, both boy lovers that
I
normally
>associate with Musk.  But Hyacinthus is the same kind of
mythic figure:
male
>lover of Apollo, stricken dead by the jealous wind.  But
instead of Musk,
he
>immediately meets Hyacinth, who has fake breasts.

I too the statuary, Hyacinth's potential androgeny etc as
re-inforcement
of Musk's character and lifestyle.  I'm far from convinced that
- even
with Wolfe's infamous multi-layered work - there's any need to see
more to
it than that.

If one posits that Hyacinth is ex-male, male , chem male or female
one has
to answer what purpose it serves.  More what purpose would it
serve to
have Silk fall in love with such a being.  That would seem
contrary to
Wolfe's normal path in such matters and would require
explanation.

Matthew



-- 
http://www.urth.net/
To unsubscribe: send "unsubscribe" to
urth-request at urth.net
</x-html>
<html>
I am on vacation during the last week of August. I will get
back to you after I return on Labor Day.

Thanks,

Ian Lamont
Assistant Web Site Manager
Harvard Alumni Affairs and Development Office
124 Mount Auburn Street
Cambridge, MA 02138
Tel: (617) 495-8183
Fax: (617) 495-0521</html>

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