The Blushas Challenge: Round Two

James Jordan · 02 Dec 2002, 18:03 · from urth-v0212.mbox · original

This is the message as the crawl holds it, before anything here touched it. What the conversation shows has been through ingest: transfer encodings decoded, attachments dropped, quote markers repaired, and the archiver’s ? resolved into quotation marks and dashes. Those repairs are judgements and some of them are wrong, which is what this page is for. Email addresses are obscured here as they are everywhere else on the site, so it is before our repairs rather than byte for byte.

From: James Jordan <jbjordan4 at cox.net>
Subject: Re: (urth) The Blushas Challenge: Round Two
Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 12:03:53 -0600
Message-ID: <urth-v0212-2310 at digest.urth.net>
X-Urthmirror-Source: http://www.urth.net/urth/archives/v0212/2310.txt.shtml
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

         I should think that everyone admits that Wolfe intends some=20
analogies between the Blue-Green system and the Urth/Ushas-Lune system --=20
maybe particularly Ushas, since we have *On Blue's WATERS* and the Ushan=20
Green Man to think about. These surface analogies invite thematic=20
reflection, so that Blue may be showing us things about the possible future=20
of Ushas, but without being the same planet as Ushas.
         Analogy is not identity, however. Consider the analogy between the=20
Neighbors and the Narrator. The Neighbors leave and then return to turn=20
Blue over to humanity, and leave. The Narrator leaves (to the Whorl, where=20
some of the Neighbors also went) and then returns and brings about several=20
political reformations and sets humanity on a better course -- which they=20
may or may not follow -- and then leaves. We could probably come up with=20
more analogies, analogies that help us understand the shape of the=20
narrative. But clearly the Narrator is not a Neighbor.
         Wolfe deals with analogies a lot, chinese boxes wherein one system=20
of things is duplicated to some extent at a "higher" or "lower" or "later"=20
level. Viron-Ayuntamiento-Silk is a kind of smaller analogy for=20
Whorl-rebellious gods-Pas. Viron-Silk and Whorl-Pas is kind of like=20
Israel-Jesus and Rome-Emperor. Commonwealth-Severian is like=20
Urth-Conciliator. Etc.
         With this in mind, I should think that there are fruitful things=20
to be investigated about Ushas-Blue analogies. But these would be analogies=20
and parallels, in terms of how Wolfe sets things out. From this standpoint,=20
the Narrator's visit to Severian is not just something thrown into the text=20
to satisfy fans, but also an indication that Blue's waters tell us=20
something about the future of Ushah's waters. It helps solidity the analogy=20
and adds more dimension and depth to the overall super-narrative. On a=20
strictly literal level, the Starcrosser ark just goes to another planet. On=20
a deeper level, but only by analogy, the ark goes through the flooding=20
waters of Urth and comes to Ushas.
         I think the argument for identity does founder exactly where Dan'l=20
suggests: the question of WHY the Narrator returns to Urth precisely when=20
he does. Those arguing for identity have to show two things: 1. that this=20
astral travel can also be time-travel for someone in the parties who make=20
the trip, either the Narrator or someone else; and 2. importantly, the=20
reason why the time-travel takes the party to precisely this particular=20
time on Urth. Unless both of these can be credibly shown -- and maybe they=20
can -- then we need to be content with analogy and not identity.
         A subsidiary matter: Does time-travel also involve spatial travel?=20
I don't recall from the Severian narrative, but I think it does. But I note=20
that the astral travel to Urth does involve returning to a particular place=20
in the life of one of the travellers. That is, astral travel is spatially=20
pegged, so it should be temporally pegged as well. But we don't go back to=20
the time that this man (name escapes me) came from, and that's what we=20
should expect to do if the connection in space is also a connection in=20
time. This fact only strengthen Dan'l's question. If they are travelling in=20
the corridors of time, then why are they snapped back to this particular=20
place? Why not some other place? If the link is with Severian somehow, and=20
Severian at this particular time of his life, then why did they not arrive=20
in his presence immediately?
         Naw. They go back to Urth because one member of the party was from=20
Urth. They go where they go because that's where he was. They go when they=20
go because it is the same time on Urth as on Blue/Green, because there is=20
no time-traveller among them.
         Also, let's assume for discussion's sake that there are smart=20
trees on Urth and that they are related to Neighbors and inhumi. This does=20
not prove identity, because we know that Urth people had been to the stars;=20
we know that Scylla has a presence on both Urth and Blue; we know that for=20
some reason Typhon sent a ship to Blue -- I've suggested Scylla's prompting=20
for this. So, even if we were to find smart trees in the Severian Quintet,=20
this does not indicate identity, only contact between the two worlds at=20
some earlier time and the transport of Blue/Green lifeforms to Urth.

FWIW

Nutria


--=20

An unofficial mirror of a public mailing list · about & removal requests · download the archive · before the list · original archive at urth.net