Urth Net
Digest from urth@urth.net
James Wynn · 12 Dec 2002, 15:51
· from urth-v0212.mbox · original
This is the message as the crawl holds it, before anything
here touched it. What the conversation shows has been through ingest: transfer
encodings decoded, attachments dropped, quote markers repaired, and the
archiver’s ? resolved into quotation marks and dashes. Those
repairs are judgements and some of them are wrong, which is what this page is
for. Email addresses are obscured here as they are everywhere else on the site,
so it is before our repairs rather than byte for byte.
From: "James Wynn" <crushtv at HotPOP.com> Subject: RE: (urth) Re: Digest from urth at urth.net Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 09:51:56 -0600 Message-ID: <urth-v0212-2405 at digest.urth.net> X-Urthmirror-Source: http://www.urth.net/urth/archives/v0212/2405.txt.shtml MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Personally, I always preferred the original Amerind name, "musquash". -----Original Message----- From: jismulkstis at att.net [mailto:jismulkstis at att.net] Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2002 6:32 AM To: urth at urth.net Subject: (urth) Re: Digest from urth at urth.net Sorry, "Muskrat" has already been taken. Granted, I don't write often, but I've posted twice using "Muskrat". I know this seems petty, but muskrats are special to me. However, if "ArchD'Ikon Zibethicus" is really your name, "Muskrat" is yours without any argument. > Message-Id: <v03130300ba1c0610fdae@[209.179.218.51]> > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"us-ascii" > Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 17:46:24 -0800 > To: urth at urth.net > From: Michael Andre-Driussi <mantis at siriusfiction.com> > Subject: (urth) FLF: the four and who/what they are > Reply-To: urth at urth.net > > Catharine Margaret Garth, aka Candy, is the massive (250+ pound) pale > prostitute who wears white (a virginal color) which is sometimes (e.g., as > she is singing at the bar in the Consort hotel) mistaken for blue (blue and > white being the colors of Mary, mother of Jesus, iirc). To escape from > Belmont, the mental hospital, she has to put on the uniform of a black > nurse (note the contrast); after which, since people assume she is a nurse, > she begins to act like one, and becomes a healer. > > The witch in black (opposite to Candy's white), known as Madame Serpentina > and Marie, uses her own strip-show seduction to manipulate Ozzie Barnes > early on in the novel, but despite all that she seems to be a virgin (the > gypsy Pete says that King would kill her if she had a non-gypsy boyfriend, > if I read the passage right, and this seems like a real threat rather than > an exagerration). She is also dark skinned, as the black nurse points out. > > Osgood Myles Barnes. (Why do three of the four have hidden names beginning > with "M"? I heard that question 16 years ago and now I ask it myself. > Does it have to do with the fact that "M" is at the middle of the > alphabet?) He talks about being Popeye, but it isn't until after Phil > Reeder, the crazy drunken sailor changes clothes with him at Belmont (and > loses the glass eye) that he really becomes Popeye, complete with towering > Olive Oyl (Robin Valor), Sweet Pea (Little Ozzie), and Bluto (Phil Reeder). > In addition to this, he is the magician Oz and a satyr. > > James Stubb. Ozzie says his original name, "Stubbe," means "room." Which > does not ring any bells for me, unless it points to "Free as the > House/Country of Oz" thread. > > Three of the characters have something about their eyes. Three of the > characters have Freudian fixations which are psychological explanations of > their vices/character imbalances (Candy's gluttony; Ozzy's lust; Stubb's > inability to feel). > > EYES FIXATION OZ CHARACTER > Candy na Oral Dorothy? > Witch contact lenses na Ozma? > Ozzy glass eye Genital Wizard Oz > Stubb glasses Anal Tin Woodman? > > I wonder if Candy is "normal girl of Earth" Dorothy to the Witch's Ozma > "sorcerer-princess of Oz"? I make the tentative link between Stubb and Tin > Woodman mainly because I think Stubb's "hard boiled" persona shows his > inability to feel (the Tin man's problem) as well as the slighter details: > Stubb vaguely suggests to me something cut (like the stump of a felled > tree); Stubb is the one who retrieves the axe after the accident in front > of Free's house. > > =3DCity of Oz under seige=3D > To fend off the demolition, each of the four does what he/she can. The > witch summons up a chthonic entity that stops the police from going around > the house to the back door (unless this is done by Free himself?), and so > confuses them that they break into the neighbor's house (Mrs. Baker's). > Candy throws water, which first chases the cops away and then freezes on > the porch, turning it into a slippery trap; later she slicks herself up > with baby oil to inhibit their attempts to remove her from the house. Stubb > tries calling all the politicians he knows, and this brings the tv news. > Barnes is the one who calls in all the business men who mob Sergeant > Proudy, including: Mick Malloy (ex-cop, life insurance salesman); Steve > Marshal (life insurance); Nate Glasser with P, E, G & D (investment > counselors); and Sim Sheppard (Florida real estate). > > Nathanial Glasser is the one who wears blue-tinted spectacles (naturally). > This seems to be a clear pointer to the Emerald City of Oz, where everyone > wears green spectacles. More specifically, it suggests the first man who > is seen wearing these curious glasses: the Guardian of the Gates of Oz. > And Nate Glasser is, in fact, a guardian of the portal of Free's house > (pointing to "Free as the House/City of Oz"). > > In the first Oz book, the Army of Oz is a single soldier (wearing green > spectacles). In the second book, iirc, Oz is overrun by an invading army, > a coalition of militants from each of the four member-states of Oz, and > after the Ozma restoration a more modern army of many generals and one > private is established in Oz. > > The fact that of the 100 or so businessmen there are four named suggests > comparison to the coalition army, and the fact that the Florida real estate > salesman has to wear beachcomber attire in winter shows that he represents > "the South," much as the coalition army is made up of members from North, > South, East, and West, with the differences marked by a bit of color in > their uniforms. > > The fire axe which is used against the door of the house and later beans > Sergeant Proudy in the head, while it looks to be a normal axe, in the > landscape of Oz it can only belong to one figure: Nick Chopper, the Tin > Woodman. (Not that Officer Williams, who was using the axe, is to be > associated with the Oz hero: as noted above, I begin to wonder if Jim Stubb > is a version of Nick Chopper.) > > So in FLF, the Oz elements emerge in such a way as to reinforce the notion > that Free's house is the land of Oz, or at least the Emerald City: only > this time the beseigers (cops and wrecking crew) are set apon by a > coalition army from four points of the compass (whereas in the second Oz > book the coalition army is laying seige to the city). > > Again, I'm not an expert on Oz or Freud, so I stand by ready for > corrections on matters relating to either one or anything else. > > =3Dmantis=3D > > > > -- > Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 21:54:39 -0500 > From: William Ansley <wansley at warwick.net> > Subject: Re: (urth) Nicknames? > To: urth at urth.net > Message-id: <a05100300ba1c5456b0a3@[10.0.1.31]> > MIME-version: 1.0 > Content-type: text/plain; charset=3Dus-ascii; format=3Dflowed > Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > Reply-To: urth at urth.net > > "ArchD'Ikon Zibethicus" <zibethicus at hotmail.com> wrote: > > >Ummm...I just joined...are we supposed to be using Vironseque > >nicknames? Will my existing name do - it is that of an animal... > > > >Is there a digest available? I forgot to ask... > > First, welcome. > > I certainly do not speak in any official capacity for the list, but > there is no requirement to use a "Vironesque" nickname unless you > want to; I have never used one. Your existing name is perfect, > actually. _Ondatra zibethicus_ or the Common Muskrat - you fit right > in with Nutria and alga. > > There is a archive of the list available at <http://www.urth.net/urth/>. > > If you want to subscribe to a digest version of the mailing list, > send an email to urth-request at urth.net with the text: > > digest true > > as the only text in the body of the message. > > Ranjit Bhatnagar, the very generous fellow who is responsible for the > existence of this list in the first place has prepared a summary of > all you should need to know to participate in the Urth mailing list > here: > > http://www.urth.net/urth/join.txt > > This should be the same info you get via email when you join the list. > > I am looking forward to hearing what you have to say. You can't be > any crazier than the last few people who have joined the discussion. > <G> > -- > > William Ansley > > -- > Message-ID: <040301c2a0c1$eafac330$a6c56596@ABTOSHIBA> > From: "Andrew Bollen" <abollen at internode.on.net> > To: <urth at urth.net> > Subject: (urth) OT: Nigerian scams > Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 14:03:41 +1100 > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset=3D"iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Reply-To: urth at urth.net > > Not a Wolfean take on Nigerian "4-1-9" scams, but very damn funny > nonetheless: Check out http://www.quatloos.com/brad-c/directory01.htm. > Record of a guy's counter-scamming of the scammers. "The Porcine Princess > Chronicles" and "The Senator's Beach Pledge" both highly recommended. > > Quatloos is a magnificent site devoted to chronicling and exposing all the > various low-life scams going around - very useful if you have relatives or > friends about to quaff on some kind of snake oil. > > Slightly more Wolfean perhaps is > http://www.quatloos.com/cm-omega/cm-omega.htm. Visions of the land of milk & > honey, millianarian yearnings, fundamentalism & dumb greed combined in one > of the most pathetic displays of human stupidity ever. > > - AB > > > > -- > From: "ArchD'Ikon Zibethicus" <zibethicus at hotmail.com> > To: urth at urth.net > Subject: Re: (urth) Nicknames? > Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 04:15:32 +0000 > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; format=3Dflowed > Message-ID: <F22kewXtsLVNzfcBcnt000113af at hotmail.com> > Reply-To: urth at urth.net > > > >First, welcome. > > Thank you. > > > >Your existing name is perfect, actually. _Ondatra zibethicus_ or the > >Common Muskrat - you fit right > in with Nutria and alga. > > That's the one! In honour of Deacon Mushrat from `Pogo'... > > > >If you want to subscribe to a digest version of the mailing list, <snip> > >This should be the same info you get via email when you join the list. > > Yes, thanks; I have now (hopefully) attended to this. I either didn't get > or didn't notice the E-mail in question when I posted the preceeding > message. I will try to poke around in the archives, time permitting. > > >I am looking forward to hearing what you have to say. You can't be any > >crazier than the last few people who have joined the discussion. > > Many would disagree! (However, I suppose that's my cue for a tedious brief > introduction...) I can tell a hawk from a handsaw well enough when the wind > is in some quadrants, but only on some days... I am an ageing, irritable > recluse in increasingly poor health, living in poverty with my young family > in the Blue Mountains of Australia (which very nearly got burned a couple of > days ago in bushfires). I was introducted to `Shadow' in the mid-1980s by a > friend who mistook me for an intellectual, and I immediately realised that I > had encountered a uniquely significant fantasy author. I read `Shadow', I > believe, in a single weekend session, and then immediately sought out the > rest of the series. The rest, as they say is history. What more is there > to say? > > Oh, yes - I have kept in touch with the development of the Long Sun and > Short Sun series, of course, as well as gathered everything else I can find. > I hope that they _never_ attempt to film the Book of the New Sun, but I > can see in my mind's eye a deluxe anniversary hardback edition sumptuously > and strikingly illustrated by Barry Moser's beautiful woodcuts... > > Other authors whom I particularly enjoy include (off the top of my head) > Ambrose Bierce, James Branch Cabell, J. G. Ballard, Louis-Ferdinand Celine, > Amit Chaudhuri, R. A. Lafferty, Alasdair Gray and Jonathan Carroll. > > Look forward to talking, > > ->Zx<- > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=3Dfeatures/virus > > > -- > Message-ID: <002f01c2a0cf$216b9bd0$d5456c42@akt> > From: "Alice K. Turner" <aturner6 at nyc.rr.com> > To: <urth at urth.net> > Subject: Re: (urth) Nicknames? > Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 23:38:19 -0500 > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset=3D"iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Reply-To: urth at urth.net > > > You can use any name you like, but if you're going to be posting a lot that > unwieldy sig is going to cause some annoyance. > > -alga > > > Ummm...I just joined...are we supposed to be using Vironseque nicknames? > > Will my existing name do - it is that of an animal... > > > > Is there a digest available? I forgot to ask... > > > > ->Zx<- > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > > > > The proliferation of children who can reach the heights of computer > creation > > brings to light a basic feature of the computer itself - it is > > infantile...[t]he microcomputer is above all a game and is infantile. But > > it is also very dangerous. We need to know whether it does not also > > 'infantalize'. > > > > -Jacques Ellul, `The Technological Bluff' > > ________________________________________________ > > > > The disciple Hui-K'e asked Bodhidharma, "Please help me to quiet my mind." > > Bodhidharma said, "Bring me your mind so that I can quiet it." After a > > moment Hui-K'e said, "But I can't find my mind." "There," said > Bodhidharma, > > "I have now quieted your mind." > > > > -Charles Luk > > > > ________________________________________________ > > > > Nothing exists except atoms and empty space; everything else is opinion. > > > > -Democritos > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* > > http://join.msn.com/?page=3Dfeatures/junkmail > > > > > > -- > > > > > > -- > Message-ID: <000a01c2a0e1$1c610000$f53cc6d8 at rclackey.stic.net> > From: "Roy C. Lackey" <rclackey at stic.net> > To: "urth" <urth at urth.net> > Subject: Re: (urth) FLF: the four and who/what they are > Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 00:46:50 -0600 > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset=3D"iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Reply-To: urth at urth.net > > mantis wrote: > >Catharine Margaret Garth, aka Candy, is the massive (250+ pound) pale > >prostitute who wears white (a virginal color) which is sometimes (e.g., as > >she is singing at the bar in the Consort hotel) mistaken for blue (blue and > >white being the colors of Mary, mother of Jesus, iirc). To escape from > >Belmont, the mental hospital, she has to put on the uniform of a black > >nurse (note the contrast); after which, since people assume she is a nurse, > >she begins to act like one, and becomes a healer. > > I can't address the OZ stuff, so just a few notations. Pink is often > mentioned in connection with Candy, especially her hands. She was wearing a > garish pink robe in the morning before she took Free to breakfast. She > changed into a pink sweater and black skirt. Her open-toed sandals were also > pink. FWIW. > > >I wonder if Candy is "normal girl of Earth" Dorothy to the Witch's Ozma > >"sorcerer-princess of Oz"? I make the tentative link between Stubb and Tin > >Woodman mainly because I think Stubb's "hard boiled" persona shows his > >inability to feel (the Tin man's problem) as well as the slighter details: > >Stubb vaguely suggests to me something cut (like the stump of a felled > >tree); Stubb is the one who retrieves the axe after the accident in front > >of Free's house. > > I took his name to be related to his height. As in stubby. The "hard boiled" > persona is straight out of old books/movies. IIRC, at one point Stubb even > recalls one such movie role played by Robert Mitchum. I don't see Stubb as > hard boiled; he just doesn't wear his emotions on his sleeve. He is often > sympathetic to people, especially Candy. > > As for assigning OZ roles: there is one point, near the end of chapter 14, > when Candy and Barnes are together in the hotel lobby, before they have ever > gone up to Serpentina's room. She had just spoken to Stubb on the house > phone. She said **to** Barnes: "Seventh floor, room seventy-seven, Ozzie. > We're off to see the wizard." So how can Barnes be the wizard? Only the > witch and Stubb were up in the room. > > -Roy > > > -- > Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 08:22:13 -0600 > Subject: (urth) OT: Leviathan 3 > From: Adam Stephanides <adamsteph at earthlink.net> > To: <urth at urth.net> > Message-ID: <BA1CA633.3C7FB%adamsteph at earthlink.net> > Mime-version: 1.0 > Content-type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" > Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > Reply-To: urth at urth.net > > I'm putting in a plug for this recent anthology, which is one of the best > original fantasy-sf anthologies I've read. (Most of the stories are > original; the few that aren't originally appeared in obscure places.) There > are a number of well-known contributors: Moorcock, Stableford and Emshmiller > on the sf side and Remy de Goncourt, Theophile Gautier, and Rikki Ducournet > on the "mainstream" side. There are also some good pieces by less well-known > writers, including a twisted take on Oz by Stepan Chapman (author of The > Troika). It's co-edited by Jeff VanderMeer (though he's not a contributor), > and published by the Ministry of Whimsy (www.ministryofwhimsy.com), which > published the above-mentioned The Troika. > > My excuse for discussing Leviathan 3 on this list is that many of the > stories, though not all, revolve around books or libraries, and there is a > sequence of Borges-inspired short stories running through the anthology > (though these latter are actually among the weaker contributions). > > --Adam > > > -- > Message-Id: <v03130300ba1cfe7bb45f@[209.179.252.144]> > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"us-ascii" > Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 09:28:32 -0800 > To: urth at urth.net > From: Michael Andre-Driussi <mantis at siriusfiction.com> > Subject: Re: (urth) FLF: the four and who/what they are > Reply-To: urth at urth.net > > Roy wrote: > >I can't address the OZ stuff, so just a few notations. Pink is often > >mentioned in connection with Candy, especially her hands. She was wearing a > >garish pink robe in the morning before she took Free to breakfast. She > >changed into a pink sweater and black skirt. Her open-toed sandals were also > >pink. FWIW. > > Good points. I took the pinkness of her fingers as pointers to her pale > skin color. Her pink and black clothes were worn, iirc, when she was "off > duty." In any event, I believe there are strong connections between Candy > and the color white, just as there are links between the witch and black. > > Re Stubb, Roy wrote: > >I took his name to be related to his height. As in stubby. > > Sure, that's there. I didn't mean to exclude it. > > >The "hard boiled" > >persona is straight out of old books/movies. IIRC, at one point Stubb even > >recalls one such movie role played by Robert Mitchum. > > Odd thing about that movie: I couldn't find it using the very useful > Internet Movie Database. Sure, Robert Mitchum shows up, but there is no > movie listed with him and "Linda Loring," in fact, iirc, there is no > listing for a "Linda Loring" at all. > > From the notes in FLF, one might think that "Hellcats of the Navy" is about > Naval pilots. It is about a submarine. > > I will agree that my accuracy was off in writing that Stubb has an > inability to feel: after all, I previously wrote that he was choleric! To > ammend it, I would say that Stubb wants to have a "heart," that is, he > should have feelings of a more positive, sanguinary nature; and this > wanting to have a heart is a tenuous link to the Tin Man (who wants to have > all feelings). > > >As for assigning OZ roles: there is one point, near the end of chapter 14, > >when Candy and Barnes are together in the hotel lobby, before they have ever > >gone up to Serpentina's room. She had just spoken to Stubb on the house > >phone. She said **to** Barnes: "Seventh floor, room seventy-seven, Ozzie. > >We're off to see the wizard." So how can Barnes be the wizard? Only the > >witch and Stubb were up in the room. > > There are several references to the movies (including that one reference to > "The Wiz"). In the case you cite, I think the points are: the witch is a > magic user; they are going to see her. (If the musical had contained a > song about visiting Glinda, a trip which happens in the book, iirc, maybe > they would have used that song.) The same song is used again, when they > have escaped from Belmont, Little Ozzie sings it to the group (Little > Ozzie, Big Ozzie, Nimo, Stubb, and Candy) and I don't think they are really > going to see a wizard at that point, at all. (But I do wonder at how this > group might map to Dorothy and her four companions, because Nimo seems to > paint himself as the Scarecrow with his parody of the Scarecrow's song "If > I Only Had a Brain." > > Dorothy: Candy > Scarecrow: Nimo the Clown > Tin Man: ? > Cowardly Lion:? > Toto: ? ) > > As for Ozzie being the Wizard Oz (aside from the name, which is as obvious > as stub =3D short). In the land of Oz there are two clear classes of mag= ic: > there is real magic (practiced by the witches, Ozma, and others) and there > is stage magic, i.e., fakery (practiced by Wizard Oz). While Ozzie's > novelties for sale are mainly pornographic items or toy puzzles, he does > have some of those "practical joke" tricks, like the sneezing powder that > goes off when Proudy grabs him (which causes him to sneeze and contributes > to the accident with the axe: the axe-ident). This use of simple > dime-store trickery is very much like Wizard Oz in DOROTHY AND THE WIZARD > IN OZ. > > Re Ozma and Dorothy, I should point out the details of their hair: Ozma's > hair is, I believe, dark and long (down her back); Dorothy's hair, contrary > to the movie, is blonde and shoulder-length (true, it is in long braids for > the first book, but once Ozma is introduced [book 2], Dorothy's hair is as > I reported above, afaik). A nice physical match for the crowning glories > of the witch and Candy. > > A word about Sgt. Proudy: he is villainous not because he serves the > eviction notice but because he is a corrupt cop -- he bullies money out of > Candy and hits her. There seems to be more corruption in the 13th > Precinct: that other cop is getting money out of Barney the loan shark. > > =3Dmantis=3D > > > > -- > From: "James Wynn" <crushtv at HotPOP.com> > To: <urth at urth.net> > Subject: RE: (urth) Nicknames? > Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 11:33:06 -0600 > Message-ID: <PLEFLJEIBGPANKPDCAMPEELDCHAA.crushtv at HotPOP.com> > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset=3D"us-ascii" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Reply-To: urth at urth.net > > >>"ArchD'Ikon Zibethicus" <zibethicus at hotmail.com> wrote: > >> > >>Ummm...I just joined...are we supposed to be using Vironseque > >>nicknames? Will my existing name do - it is that of an animal... > > > >William Ansley [mailto:wansley at warwick.net] wrote: > >I certainly do not speak in any official capacity for the list, but > >there is no requirement to use a "Vironesque" nickname unless you > >want to; I have never used one. Your existing name is perfect, > >actually. _Ondatra zibethicus_ or the Common Muskrat - you fit right > >in with Nutria and alga. > > > I am looking forward to hearing what you have to say. You can't be > >any crazier than the last few people who have joined the discussion. > ><G> > > Crush offers: > I second William's optimism and if you want a Vironese nickname I can also > suggest that you merely shorten your last name to Zibeth or even Zibet which > are other names for the civit cat. > > Heck you could even use "Musk" in that case which is also synonymous with > "civit" (as president of the crazies, I felt obliged to offer that one ;-D). > > -- Crush > > > > > -- > Message-ID: <20021211190237.31521.qmail at web14401.mail.yahoo.com> > Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 11:02:37 -0800 (PST) > From: Jerry Friedman <jerry_friedman at yahoo.com> > Subject: (urth) Two FLF details > To: urth at urth.net > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Dus-ascii > Reply-To: urth at urth.net > > I carelessly deleted a post that mentioned Linda Loring. She's a > character in at least two of Raymond Chandler's novels--Philip > Marlowe is in love with her. Robert Mitchum played Marlowe in > _The Big Sleep_ and _Farewell, My Lovely_, but Linda Loring isn't > in those movies. > > The IMDB appears to search only for real people, not characters. > > Also, Unnamed City has a TV station called WROM (in Stubbs' > questioning of Mrs. Baker). The only TV station by that name that > I could find is or more likely was in Rome, Georgia--which can't be > the setting of FLF, at least in our universe. Maybe a reference > to a Rome that's more important to Wolfe? > > -- > Jerry Friedman > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. > http://mailplus.yahoo.com > > -- > From: "James Wynn" <crushtv at HotPOP.com> > To: <urth at urth.net> > Subject: RE: (urth) Two FLF details > Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 13:48:01 -0600 > Message-ID: <PLEFLJEIBGPANKPDCAMPCELFCHAA.crushtv at HotPOP.com> > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset=3D"us-ascii" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Reply-To: urth at urth.net > > Actually IMDB **will** search for characters (just enter Philip Marlowe and > you'll see it is true). It appears no movie (listed there) used the > character or at least the name "Linda Loring". > > -- Crush > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jerry Friedman [mailto:jerry_friedman at yahoo.com] > Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 1:03 PM > To: urth at urth.net > Subject: (urth) Two FLF details > > I carelessly deleted a post that mentioned Linda Loring. She's a > character in at least two of Raymond Chandler's novels--Philip > Marlowe is in love with her. Robert Mitchum played Marlowe in > _The Big Sleep_ and _Farewell, My Lovely_, but Linda Loring isn't > in those movies. > > The IMDB appears to search only for real people, not characters. > > Also, Unnamed City has a TV station called WROM (in Stubbs' > questioning of Mrs. Baker). The only TV station by that name that > I could find is or more likely was in Rome, Georgia--which can't be > the setting of FLF, at least in our universe. Maybe a reference > to a Rome that's more important to Wolfe? > > -- > Jerry Friedman > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. > http://mailplus.yahoo.com > > -- > > > > > -- > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Subject: RE: (urth) Nicknames? > Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 13:34:12 -0700 > Message-ID: <11CFA5F21C19884E882246F39DBE4B1A0D744A at SDCEXMB01.corp.siebel.com> > From: "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes" <ddanehy at siebel.com> > To: urth at urth.net > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset=3Dus-ascii > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > Reply-To: urth at urth.net > > > >Your existing name is perfect, actually. _Ondatra zibethicus_ or the > > >Common Muskrat - you fit right > in with Nutria and alga. > >=3D20 > > That's the one! In honour of Deacon Mushrat from `Pogo'... > > Ah, bravo! Another appreciator of the great American humorists --=3D20 > mine own nom du Viron coming indirectly from Don Marquis, I salute > you, sah. > > > --Blattid > > > -- > Message-ID: <000e01c2a15c$1d770e00$093ec6d8 at rclackey.stic.net> > From: "Roy C. Lackey" <rclackey at stic.net> > To: "urth" <urth at urth.net> > Subject: (urth) FLF: The planes > Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 15:27:25 -0600 > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset=3D"iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Reply-To: urth at urth.net > > There are some problems with both the _High Country_ and the B-17 that I > can't resolve. At the end of the book Free tells the four boarders that > there are two ways to leave the _High Country_, either the gizmo or the > B-17. Use of the gizmo entails time-travel; the B-17 doesn't. There is no > doubt that when the four were put aboard the B-17 it was January 1983. Free > also makes reference to the fact that the year on board the _High Country_ > is the same as the year on the ground, or 1983. There is also no doubt that > the B-17 came from the W.W. II era, as did the crew. The crew's lack of > contemporary knowledge, their clothing, and their artifacts (guns, > cigarettes) all point to the 1940s. Okay, but the problem is, how did the > B-17 get from 1942 to 1982? > > Judging from the backdoor of Free's house, use of a gizmo involves passage > through some sort of field in order for the person/object to be transported > through time. In other words, when the gizmo on _High Country_ was used, > neither the plane itself nor the other persons/objects on it were > transported. The _High Country_ got to 1982 the hard way, by flying > continuously for forty years. When the B-17 appeared in November 1982, how > did it get there? > > Improbable as it may seem, the duffel-coated Whitten in 1982 seems to be > totally ignorant of the fact that the _High Country_, in that year, is > completely abandoned and has been for many years. In fact, judging from the > dates on papers the four found, and the globe which still showed many former > colonies as still being colonies, and the natural decay of fabrics and other > items, the plane seems to have been abandoned since the war years. After > all, once the first use of the gizmo to travel to 1952 was successful, the > original purpose for building the _High Country_ no longer mattered. All the > future history books showed that the government powers were not and never > had been threatened. There was no reason for the powerful men to stay on the > plane, so they didn't. The only purpose the plane then had was as a future > staging platform for the gizmo. The OSS wanted to go into the future to get > a jump on future gadgetry that might be useful to them in their operations. > 1982 was the year they chose to travel to and set up a base of operations, > which is when and why Whitten bought the Flying Carpet. The orders that > Whitten thought came from 'on high' didn't come from the plane, they were > planted by his future self, after he deserted. > > At least, that's how I see it. But I can't explain the B-17. > > -Roy > > > -- > Message-Id: <v03130300ba1d6600985d@[209.179.217.250]> > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"us-ascii" > Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 15:01:09 -0800 > To: urth at urth.net > From: Michael Andre-Driussi <mantis at siriusfiction.com> > Subject: Re: (urth) FLF: The planes > Reply-To: urth at urth.net > > Roy wrote: > >There are some problems with both the _High Country_ and the B-17 that I > >can't resolve. At the end of the book Free tells the four boarders that > >there are two ways to leave the _High Country_, either the gizmo or the > >B-17. Use of the gizmo entails time-travel; the B-17 doesn't. There is no > >doubt that when the four were put aboard the B-17 it was January 1983. Free > >also makes reference to the fact that the year on board the _High Country_ > >is the same as the year on the ground, or 1983. There is also no doubt that > >the B-17 came from the W.W. II era, as did the crew. The crew's lack of > >contemporary knowledge, their clothing, and their artifacts (guns, > >cigarettes) all point to the 1940s. Okay, but the problem is, how did the > >B-17 get from 1942 to 1982? > > > >Judging from the backdoor of Free's house, use of a gizmo involves passage > >through some sort of field in order for the person/object to be transported > >through time. In other words, when the gizmo on _High Country_ was used, > >neither the plane itself nor the other persons/objects on it were > >transported. The _High Country_ got to 1982 the hard way, by flying > >continuously for forty years. When the B-17 appeared in November 1982, how > >did it get there? > > When Buck Whitten brought his team from August 20, 1942 to November 5, > 1982, they came in the B-17. > > Presumably the gizmo on High Country can be set to project outside of the > High Country as well as in a doorway (in the High Country or in Free's > house). The B-17 then flies through the sky-door and into 1982. > > "On the other hand, if _High Country_ or some successor . . . was still > flying and we wanted to take something big home [to 1942], we could do that > in the plane" (ch. 59, 392). > > Thus the HC gizmo can make a plane-size door, the little gizmo can make a > man-size door. > > I hope this resolves your initial problem so we can move onto the next: > what is the perspective from the flight-crew of the B-17? That is, those > two guys (one Army, one Navy) seem to have had some experience in flying > through time, and yet they have not lived in the 1980s, or if they have > they have not known it. If they are the original crew who flew in with > Buck, then maybe they flew back to 1942 . . . otherwise they have been > living in 1982 for a couple of months (November 5 to January 22), under > wraps by Buck & Co. (so they would not know they were in the 80s), but > during which time they would use up their Camel cigarettes and matches. > > That is (and maybe this is just a refinement of your original problem): the > B-17 seems to have come directly from 1942 specifically for this one > mission, and to have gone back to 1942 right after. But this is not a > problem if the 1982 High Country gizmo is set to "outdoor" sky-door mode > and the target year of 1942. > > The reason this one plane and crew must be used for =3Dall=3D traffic to = and > from High Country is plain. > > I note that the plane left after it dropped off the four. It might have > gone back to 1942 (lessen the chance of time-contamination) or it might > have landed back in 1982 for simple refueling prior to going up again to > get Ozzie Barnes, the one of the four who did not go through the indoor > gizmo portal. > > Also note: the three who went through the gizmo on High Country did not > teleport to Free's house--instead they would have found themselves in the > abandoned High Country of whatever year the gizmo is set to, and have to be > ferried down to the surface via B-17. > > =3Dmantis=3D > > > > -- -- --=20
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