Silk out of time / Blushas? Grushas?

ArchD'Ikon Zibethicus · 18 Dec 2002, 10:06 · from urth-v0212.mbox · original
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From: "ArchD'Ikon Zibethicus" <zibethicus at hotmail.com>
Subject: (urth) Silk out of time / Blushas?  Grushas?
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 10:06:45 +0000
Message-ID: <urth-v0212-2460 at digest.urth.net>
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Don:

>why couldn't Marble's clock be correct?

<snip>

>3.  Marble is absolutely decrepit.  I find it hard to believe that an
>advanced chem capable of self-repair and engaged in only mildly strenuous=20
>activity would decay so soon.

Pardon my obtuseness, but is it anywhere specified that Marble's memories o=
f=20
her life as a secular chem are located on the Whorl?  She might have had an=20
earlier life on Urth, as did many people who were forced aboard.

Nutria:

>Time did not "stop" for anyone. Silk had an transcendent moment, and > the=20
>only way a temporal being can understand such a thing afterwards > is to=20
>sort it out into various pieces and temporal events.

Well, when trying to establish these matters with some sort of=20
definitiveness, I believe that an ounce of study of the actual text in=20
question can sometimes be worth a ton of theorising in one direction or=20
another.  For that reason, allow me to quote briefly from NLS Ch1 (are ther=
e=20
standard abbrevations for titles here?); during his enlightenment, Pa. Silk=20
"watched outside a clockwork show whose works had stopped", and saw (among=20
other things):

"- dead Patera Pike mumbling prayers as he slit the throat of a speckled=20
rabbit he himself had bought."

This seems to me to represent a vison or perception of a moment in Pa.=20
Pike's past life, rather than the appearences of his shade elsewhere in the=20
book.

If this is the case, it would tend to support Nutria's perception of the=20
experience as a transcendent - or transtemporal - one for Silk himself,=20
rather than a stoppage of time for the entire Whorl, as _Silk_ is being=20
shown things from various strands of time, the past and possible the future=
.=20
  That's how I read it, anyway...

Also;

>Is it possible that Blue-Green is Urth-Lune in another Banggnab? Is it=20
>possible that Silk is the Conciliator of this Banggnab, and that is why he=20
>has a link with Severian?

>Of course this raises questions, such as how the Whorl made this trip, and=20
>whether astral travel back to Urth is time-travel or some kind of=20
>parallel-universe travel.

Of course such a thing is _possible_, but I don't myself know just how=20
_probable_ it is.  I base this opinion especially on IGJ Ch22, 'The Barbica=
n=20
and the Bear Tower', which relates the visit/return of Horn/Incanto's party=20
to Nessus.  Duko Rigoglio is one of those inhabitants of Nessus who were=20
forced to board the Whorl.  He returns to the street outside his house=20
because of his emotional attraction to the spot (as I understand it). =20
Throughout the chapter, it becomes obvious that the spot has aged greatly=20
since the Duko lived there; the party guess anywhere from 1 900 to 2 500=20
years.

If what is involved in this sort of non-physical travel (call it 'astral' i=
f=20
you _must_) is a passage from one BangGnab to another, why would there be a=20
linear progression in the local timeframe of Nessus?  It seems to me that=20
something altogether more intricate is involved here...

If this amount of time has elapsed since Rigoglio's involuntary departure,=20
how does it synchronise with the general consenus that the Whorl has been=20
travelling for three hundred years?  And, further, this visit of the party=20
to Nessus occurs some years before Severian brings the New Sun, which=20
destroys Nessus and all else.  If Rigoglio was abducted during the reign of=20
Typhon, is it possible that he was kept in storage on Urth somewhere for an=20
appropriate period of time?

It would appear likely that the lapse of time in Nessus as experienced by=20
Rigoglio on his return actually corresponds (in Urth time) to the period fo=
r=20
which he has been gone on the Whorl.  Otherwise, why have the elapsation at=20
all?

Blattid (tip o' the hat to archy!):

>"You may be right about this, and certainly I would not go
>so far as to say that you were wrong, but still ...!" (Place
>_that_ quote for double credit.)

Mundus vult decipi!

>What makes me think that Silk's experience has some kind of
>internal sequentiality: he has the sense of someone (the
>Outsider) speaking into both his ears. Now, I may simply put too much=20
>emphasis on that detail, but it seems to me that
>speech has a kind of inherent sequentiality to it.

>Of course, this may simply mean that he _remembers_ it that way.

Moreover, it occurs in an instant in the middle of the prosaic activity of =
a=20
ball game, which is not interrupted by it.  I suspect that Mr. Wolfe is=20
relating something corresponding to the classic 'mystical' experience, whic=
h=20
occurs _outside_ time rather than as a consequence of time somehow=20
'stopping'.  Mr. Wolfe specifies that what Silk retains of the experience=20
which he can consciously relate is far smaller and less profound that the=20
totality of the experience as it was originally granted to him.  Whether he=20
relates it sequentially, or whether it occurs sequentially, it is impossibl=
e=20
to explain it in a fashion conformant to its nature, which is, if you like,=20
superhuman.  It certainly doesn't resemble the experience of an embolism!

*

4WIW, I read a long I/V with Mr. Wolfe shortly before I joined this forum,=20
in which he said something to the effect that _all_ the 'clues' were presen=
t=20
in the books, but that they were only placed there _once_, as he didn't=20
intend to insult the intelligence of his readers.  Something like that,=20
anyway.  I would tend to the view that, which I would of course be greatly=20
interested to hear anything which Mr. Wolfe had to say concerning the=20
planning and nature of his works, he is a skilled professional author, who=20
inserted everything necessary to have his works understood TO THE EXTENT TO=20
WHICH HE INTENDED in the works themselves.  Therefore, I support the call t=
o=20
closer textual study of works which are being theorised about...speaking as=20
a hypocrite, to be sure!

Zibethicus the Lame (thus named by a fellow New Sun reader!)

PS: While I'm here, my copy of RTW (Return to the Whorl), the TOR paperback=
,=20
is absolutely crammed with the most annoying typos throughout.  I've got=20
forty-something markers in it to that effect - I just counted it.  Is this=20
just my experience, perhaps because I was reading it aloud, or has anybody=20
else noticed it?

->Zx<-

<snip sig>


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