Typhon, Sev, Silk

Brett M. Grace · 13 Mar 2003, 01:02 · from urth-v0303.mbox · original

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From: "Brett M. Grace" <bgrace at mac.com>
Subject: Re: (urth) Typhon, Sev, Silk
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 17:02:03 -0800
Message-ID: <urth-v0303-3064 at digest.urth.net>
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>
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>perhaps 'is being exerpeinced by' is a more
>accurate way to put it
>
    This is very nice ^^^ but the reply is mostly directed to Roy.

    I think your point is that Satan and Jesus are categorically=20
different (granted!), so it's incoherent to have actors who participate=20
in both categories.  But... Severian was a torturer and Jesus was a=20
carpenter.  I think that we can still say that Severian is messianic=20
without going on to argue that, therefore, the Messiah is a torturer. =20
So presumably you accept that Severian is already categorically=20
different from Jesus--but that the categorical difference is not so=20
great that Severian can't have messianic qualities.  Likewise, Typhon in=20
the temptation scene is satanic, not Satan.  But that's just one of his=20
faces (argh, sorry)--for example, Wolfe seems interested in political=20
economy, the tension between benign monarchy, democracy, and fascism. =20
It should be possible to talk about that without reference to the fact=20
that Typhon reeks of brimstone.  I'm not normally a fan of literary=20
wishy washiness but ruling out the Graves thesis on principle seems=20
unnecessarily reductionist.

    Prior to the recent discussion on clones and the influence of=20
Graves, I think most people had generally accepted the idea that the New=20
Testament informed the New Sun and that the Old Testament informed the=20
Long Sun.  Viron is Israel, Silk is Elijah (as my wife observed:  Google=20
for elijah, raven), etc.

    If Silk is an answer to Grave's Jesus, well, that stuff doesn't go=20
away.  Don's theory isn't the key that closes other doors.  (I don't=20
claim he says it does but if I've read Roy correctly, he may think so.)

    Personally, I don't buy the everybody-is-clone thesis yet, because I=20
don't quite see the point.  Somebody more passionately attached to the=20
subject can argue how Typhon, Silk, and Severian being genetically=20
identical advances the Lupine project.  I could propose a theory, but it=20
would lack conviction...

BMG

Josh Geller wrote:

>On Wed, 12 Mar 2003, Roy C. Lackey wrote:
>
> =20
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>>It has been accepted by most here for a long time that the temptation of
>>Severian by Typhon on the mountain mimics that of Jesus by Satan. Although
>>Wolfe has maintained that Sev is not a stand-in for Jesus, the fact remai=
ns
>>that Sev goes on to become a redeemer, of sorts.
>>   =20
>>
>
>This is consonant with orthodox Chriatianity, as I understand it.
>
>Severian is experiencing (perhaps 'is being exerpeinced by' is a more
>accurate way to put it) the Mystical Body of Christ. He is thus reflects
>an echo or a shadow of Christ, while himself being a seperate person.
>
>In the same sense that (by orthodox Christian thought, as I understand it)
>Krishna or Osiris or Dionysus or any of those guys is a foreshadowing of
>Christ incarnate in the person of Jesus son of Mary, that is reflects an
>echo or shadow behind the point event of the incarnation, Severian
>reflects an echo or shadow in whatever time-like direction he is from the
>unique Incarnation.
>
>This whole foreshadowing idea is really elegant, I have to say. I don't
>know if I am about to incoporate it into my personal view of the World at
>all, but it is sort of nifty.
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