Chrasmological Writings - "Open Eyes"

James Wynn · 31 Mar 2003, 17:02 · from urth-v0303.mbox · original
This is the message as the crawl holds it, before anything here touched it. What the conversation shows has been through ingest: transfer encodings decoded, attachments dropped, quote markers repaired, and the archiver’s ? resolved into quotation marks and dashes. Those repairs are judgements and some of them are wrong, which is what this page is for. Email addresses are obscured here as they are everywhere else on the site, so it is before our repairs rather than byte for byte.
From: "James Wynn" <crushtv at hotpop.com>
Subject: (urth) Chrasmological Writings - "Open Eyes"
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 11:02:49 -0600
Message-ID: <urth-v0303-3104 at digest.urth.net>
X-Urthmirror-Source: http://www.urth.net/urth/archives/v0303/3104.txt.shtml
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=3D_NextPart_000_0014_01C2F775.11AC3D10
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset=3D"iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Andrew Bollen pondered the source of the following Chrasmological =3D
quotation:
"A simple way would be to admit that myth is neither irresponsible =3D
fantasy, nor the object of weighty psychology, or any such thing. It is =3D
wholly other, and requires to be looked at with open eyes."

Josh Geller first suggested:
"Could easily be 'Hamlet's Mill'."


And when speculation continued without considering his suggestion, Josh =3D
defiantly asserted:
"I really do think it is from 'Hamlet's Mill'. Anyone who enjoys Gene =3D
Wolfe's fiction owes it to themselves to read 'Hamlet's Mill'."


Well I still didn't take Josh's help for what it was worth, but while =3D
wandering along one of Wolfe's byways I happened to come across Georgio =3D
de Santillana (who co-authored 'Hamlet's Mill' with Herth von Dechend). =3D
"Well", thinks I, "who am I to blow against the wind?"

So I bought 'Hamlet's Mill", and thought, "Oh my, another very thick =3D
book to read". But I enjoyed every word and, sure enough....

****at the end of section one of the Epilogue, "The Lost Treasure", is =3D
the very quote.******

I must thank Josh because I probably wouldn't have elected to try this =3D
book without his recommendation. Aside from the beautiful merit of the =3D
book in its own right, I found rich veins of Wolfean source material.

For those who may not know, Shakespeare derived his Hamlet from the Dane =
=3D
Saxo Grammaticus' Latin work which included a story about the prince =3D
Amlethus. Santillana and Dechend argue that Amlethus is the Norse =3D
Amlohdi who owned  "a fabled mill which in his own time ground out peace =
=3D
and plenty. Later, in decaying times, it ground out salt; and now =3D
finally, having landed at the bottom of the sea, it is grinding rock and =
=3D
sand, creating a vast whirlpool, the Maelstrom which is supposed to be =3D
the way to the land of the dead."

The "millstone" to which they refer is spinning heavens. The center of =3D
the Mill is the polar star.=3D20

Graves asserted that true poetry is mythological, that it conveys the =3D
hidden roots of all poetry and religion. Santillana and Dechend assert =3D
that true **mythology** is cosmological; that it conveys the story of =3D
the stars and the "great catastrophe" caused by the Precession of the =3D
Equinox (when the millstone became "unhinged"). This implicitly denies =3D
(actually they contemptuously deny it) Graves attempt to derive Greek =3D
mythology from ancient religio-political upheavals on the Peloponese.

=46rom this one "great scientific marvel" of science -- the moving of the =3D
polar center and banishing of constellations "to the underworld", "to =3D
beneath the ocean",  the writers have attempted to connect practically =3D
all the great myths: Prometheus, Vishnu, the Flood, Samson, Hercules, =3D
etc. etc.)

It would be impossible to describe here every insight into Wolfe's work =3D
that this book has provided me. However, note that as in Wolfe's Whorl, =3D
ancient man also saw himself in the middle of a spinning elongated =3D
whorl, and also that Horn build's a paper mill from which comes the =3D
"Book of Silk" through which, in a sense, the gods of the Heavens, =3D
especially Silk and the Outsider, were brought to the emmigrants.

Reading this work also begins to explain for me all the references to =3D
Hesphaestus, the Smith God.=3D20

And here is here is something for New Sun speculators attempting to nail =
=3D
down a relationship between Typhon and Severian:
"The story of the smith Kavag -- also written Kaweh, or Kawa -- is told =3D
by Firdausi in the book dealing with the 1000 years rule of Dahak, that =3D
fiendish tyrant out of whose shoulders grew two serpents that had to be =3D
fed with the brains of two young men every day. The predestined =3D
dragon-slayer and much expected savior, Faridun --- Avestan Thraethona =3D
-- .... had been saved from the snares of Dahak as a baby, and hidden =3D
away in the mountains."

On science fiction, Tolkien, and Wolfe's 'bleak" plots:
"Science fiction, when it is good, is a wholly valid attempt at =3D
restoring a mythical element, with its adventures and tragedies, it =3D
meditations on man's errors and man's fate. For true tragedy is an =3D
essential component or outcome of myth....Tokien's efforts at reviving =3D
the genre, whatever the talent employed, carry as much conviction as the =
=3D
traditional three-dollar bill."

So there ya go. Thanks again to Josh for identifying this quotation and =3D
putting me on to a really interesting book.=3D20

-- Crush

--=20
------=3D_NextPart_000_0014_01C2F775.11AC3D10
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset=3D"iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3D3DContent-Type content=3D3D"text/html; =3D
charset=3D3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1141" name=3D3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D3D#ffffff>
Andrew Bollen pondered the source of =3D
the following=3D20
Chrasmological quotation:
"A simple way would be to admit that =3D
myth is=3D20
neither irresponsible fantasy, nor the object of weighty psychology, or =3D
any such=3D20
thing. It is wholly other, and requires to be looked at with open=3D20
eyes."
=C2=A0
Josh Geller first =3D
suggested:
"Could easily be 'Hamlet's =3D
Mill'."
=C2=A0
And when speculation continued without =3D
considering=3D20
his suggestion, Josh defiantly asserted:
"I really do think it is from 'Hamlet's Mill'. Anyone who enjoys =3D
Gene=3D20
Wolfe's fiction owes it to themselves to read 'Hamlet's =3D
Mill'."
=C2=A0
Well I still didn't take Josh's help =3D
for what it=3D20
was worth, but while=C2=A0wandering along one of Wolfe's byways I =3D
happened to=3D20
come across Georgio de Santillana (who co-authored 'Hamlet's Mill' with =3D
Herth=3D20
von Dechend). "Well", thinks I, "who am I to blow against the=3D20
wind?"
=C2=A0
So I bought 'Hamlet's Mill", and =3D
thought, "Oh my,=3D20
another very thick book to read". But I enjoyed every word and, sure=3D20
enough....
=C2=A0
****at the end of=C2=A0section one of =3D
the Epilogue,=3D20
"The Lost Treasure", is the very quote.******
=C2=A0
I must thank Josh because I probably =3D
wouldn't have=3D20
elected to try this book without his recommendation. Aside from the =3D
beautiful=3D20
merit of the book in its own right,=C2=A0I found rich veins of Wolfean =3D
source=3D20
material.
=C2=A0
For those who may not know, Shakespeare =3D
derived his=3D20
Hamlet from the Dane Saxo Grammaticus' Latin work which included a story =
=3D
about=3D20
the prince Amlethus.=C2=A0Santillana and=C2=A0Dechend argue that =3D
Amlethus is the=3D20
Norse Amlohdi who=C2=A0owned =C2=A0"a fabled mill which in his own time =3D
ground=3D20
out peace and plenty. Later, in decaying times, it ground out salt; and =3D
now=3D20
finally, having landed at the bottom of the sea, it is grinding rock and =
=3D
sand,=3D20
creating a vast whirlpool, the Maelstrom which is supposed to be the way =
=3D
to the=3D20
land of the dead."
=C2=A0
The "millstone" to which they refer=3D20
is=C2=A0spinning heavens. The center of the Mill is the polar=3D20
star.=C2=A0
=C2=A0
Graves asserted that true poetry=3D20
is=C2=A0mythological, that it conveys the hidden roots of all poetry and =
=3D

religion. Santillana and Dechend assert that true **mythology** is =3D
cosmological;=3D20
that it conveys the story of the stars and the "great catastrophe" =3D
caused by the=3D20
Precession of the Equinox (when the millstone became "unhinged"). This=3D20
implicitly denies (actually they=C2=A0contemptuously deny it) Graves =3D
attempt to=3D20
derive Greek mythology from ancient religio-political upheavals on the=3D20
Peloponese.
=C2=A0
=46rom this one "great scientific marvel" =3D
of science=3D20
-- the moving of the polar center and banishing of constellations "to =3D
the=3D20
underworld",=C2=A0"to beneath the ocean", =C2=A0the writers have =3D
attempted to=3D20
connect practically all the great myths: Prometheus, Vishnu, the Flood, =3D
Samson,=3D20
Hercules, etc. etc.)
=C2=A0
It would be impossible to describe here =3D
every=3D20
insight into Wolfe's work that this book has provided me. However, =3D
note that=C2=A0as in Wolfe's Whorl, ancient man =3D
also saw=3D20
himself in the middle of a spinning elongated whorl, and also =3D
that=C2=A0Horn=3D20
build's a paper mill from which comes the "Book of Silk" through which, =3D
in a=3D20
sense,=C2=A0the gods of the Heavens, especially Silk and the Outsider, =3D
were=3D20
brought to the emmigrants.
=C2=A0
Reading this work also begins =3D
to=C2=A0explain for=3D20
me all the references to Hesphaestus, the Smith God.=20
=C2=A0
And here is=C2=A0here is something for =3D
New Sun=3D20
speculators attempting to nail down=C2=A0a=C2=A0relationship between =3D
Typhon and=3D20
Severian:
"The story of the smith Kavag -- also =3D
written=3D20
Kaweh, or Kawa -- is told by Firdausi in the book dealing with the 1000 =3D
years=3D20
rule of Dahak, that fiendish tyrant out of whose shoulders grew two =3D
serpents=3D20
that had to be fed with the brains of two young men every day. The =3D
predestined=3D20
dragon-slayer and much expected savior, Faridun --- Avestan Thraethona =3D
-- ....=3D20
had been saved from the snares of Dahak as a baby, and hidden away in =3D
the=3D20
mountains."
=C2=A0
On=C2=A0science fiction, =3D
Tolkien,=C2=A0and Wolfe's=3D20
'bleak" plots:
"Science fiction, when it is good, is a =3D
wholly=3D20
valid attempt at restoring a mythical element, with its adventures and=3D20
tragedies, it meditations on man's errors and man's fate. For true =3D
tragedy is an=3D20
essential component or outcome of myth....Tokien's efforts at reviving =3D
the=3D20
genre, whatever the talent employed, carry as much conviction as the =3D
traditional=3D20
three-dollar bill."
=C2=A0
So there ya go. Thanks again to Josh =3D
for=3D20
identifying this quotation and putting me on to a really interesting =3D
book.=3D20

=C2=A0
-- Crush</BODY></HTML>

------=3D_NextPart_000_0014_01C2F775.11AC3D10--
An unofficial mirror of a public mailing list · about & removal requests · download the archive · before the list · original archive at urth.net