jolenta rape?

James Wynn · 21 Apr 2003, 22:12 · from urth-v0304.mbox · original

This is the message as the crawl holds it, before anything here touched it. What the conversation shows has been through ingest: transfer encodings decoded, attachments dropped, quote markers repaired, and the archiver’s ? resolved into quotation marks and dashes. Those repairs are judgements and some of them are wrong, which is what this page is for. Email addresses are obscured here as they are everywhere else on the site, so it is before our repairs rather than byte for byte.

From: "James Wynn" <crushtv at hotpop.com>
Subject: Re: (urth) jolenta rape?
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 17:12:36 -0500
Message-ID: <urth-v0304-3274 at digest.urth.net>
X-Urthmirror-Source: http://www.urth.net/urth/archives/v0304/3274.txt.shtml
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Marc said:
I must speak about the Jolenta "rape" - becuase I don't think it really is
one.  She went on the boat with him, teasing and playing and falling asleep.
She's just being coy.  I will gladly call Seawrack and Io rapes, and the
girl in Book of the Short Sun (Mora?).  But Jolenta ... she wanted it bad
from everybody on Urth.  Dorcas, Talos, Baldanders, Hethor, the Cummean, the
scarred boy in the hut, the bull Severian gets her to ride on, everybody
except poor stupid Jonas.

Crush responds:
Well "she wanted me to do it" was Severian's argument. She was far enough
out of it that she didn't wake up. That would qualify as "date rape". Your
argument would bring into question whether it is possible to rape a
promiscuous woman.

I'm comfortable (so to speak) identifying this event as a Wolfean rape
scene.

-Crush

>
> Who falls asleep on a boat with Severian?  Come on.  In any case, I was
going
> to say that from the first time that I read that scene in like the fifth
> grade, it invoked the worst mental image ever.  Everytime I think of the
term
> "unhatched chick" or "newborn chick" my eyes tear up.  It's awful.  That
truly
> scarred me for life.  I have no idea how a female's genitals can be called
> that.  Its the weirdest simile ever.  I have nightmares about it.  Anybody
> else similarly affected by it? These are the kind of odd things that
> completely ruin your curiousity about sex growing up.  Chicken breaking
out of
> egg and gobbling up worms from mother's mouth- how revolting!
>
> I can safely say that Jolenta is the one character in Wolfe I absolutely
hate.
>  None of the other women came even close to deserving their fate - she
should
> have been Mistress Slops.
>
> Onward to the abnormal psychology induced from strange sex scenes - thank
> goodness I never read Heinlein as a child.  Spung?!  L. Ron Hubbard was
more
> than bad enough for my whole life.
>
> Marc Aramini
>
>
>
> --

--=20

An unofficial mirror of a public mailing list · about & removal requests · download the archive · before the list · original archive at urth.net