Generic Considerations

Chris · 24 Apr 2003, 18:32 · from urth-v0304.mbox · original

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From: "Chris" <rasputin_ at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: (urth) Generic Considerations
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 18:32:11 +0000
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=46rom Blattid's excellent, intelligent, and well-written post I pick out onl=
y=20
the part I think I disagree with:

>We get into a cateogry error when we use the concept of "reality"
>in discussing a fictional text -- that is, when we discuss any text
>at the level of fiction. The world of discourse is precisely _not_
>"real" -- though the text which embodies the discourse clearly is a
>"real" text. (But is the discourse, is any discourse, "real?" What
>does it mean to call a discourse "real?")

I would say that this is not to be taken for granted. Philosophically=20
speaking the idea that the world is itself a type of text goes back quite a=20
ways; if you're a postmodernist, it's almost inescapable. I wish I were at=20
home to provide some examples, not because they're needed so much as that=20
they're simply beautiful and eloquent. My favorite is from Mallarme, but yo=
u=20
could as easily use an example from Wolfe himself: Horn, in IGJ (I think)=20
has the insight while the Outsider is standing behind him that, to the=20
outsider, *everything he called "real" was a kind of story*.

Of course, when Wolfe did that he's doing more than mentioning a=20
philosophical or religious outlook, he's also throwing in a=20
moebius-strip-of-a-plot-twist. I still have unresolved "issues" as far as=20
that whole chapter goes, but that's nothing new.

In any event, what I'm getting at is that you have to be able to treat a=20
textual object as "real" *within the bounds of the text*. When you're=20
examining the text as it would look from the inside, it seems as proper to=20
use the term "real" as it ever can be. Of course, there are other ways of=20
looking at texts than this, which we use more often than not (and are=20
generally not consciously aware of the transition) - these are more akin to=20
metaphysics, and using the word "real" then becomes questionable.

>One difference between fact and truth is that you can alter fact
>at will in creating discursive worlds, and remain in good faith with
>the text and the (hypothetical, hypostesized) reader; if you alter
>truth, you enter into a condition of bad faith with the reader, the
>text, or both.

*Within the realm of the text*, you can't alter facts without altering the=20
truth. If you take this thread of conversation and apply it to Silkhorn, wh=
o=20
is presented as being able to alter other people's stories *and his own*,=20
you get a monstrosity of logic that makes me want to stick my head in the=20
microwave. The root of the problem, near as I can tell, is that the=20
relationship between reader and storyteller is unresolvable.

I probably put that fairly obtusely. But I guess a good leading question to=20
ask is: in your opinion, if Silkhorn is in a condition of bad faith with hi=
s=20
reader/text, does this mean that Wolfe is of necessity in a condition of ba=
d=20
faith with his? If you say that it does not then it implies that there are=20
different layers of truth, not just fact, involved.

Another fun question, of course, is "how many texts is the Book of the Shor=
t=20
Sun?" Akin to "How many Torahs are there?"

Too Much Coffee Chris

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--=20

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