latro and ares / mine of saltus

James Jordan · 07 May 2003, 21:01 · from urth-v0305.mbox · original

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From: James Jordan <jbjordan4 at cox.net>
Subject: Re: (urth) latro and ares / mine of saltus
Date: Wed, 07 May 2003 16:01:44 -0500
Message-ID: <urth-v0305-3362 at digest.urth.net>
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Hmmm. Interesting.
         Latro is certainly linked with Mars, being a Roman and all. For=20
me, that had been enough. Now I don't know.
         Add to your data his tryst with Venus/Aphrodite, lover of=20
Mars/Ares. I brought this up to Wolfe in my looong interview, mentioning=20
that Venus was married to Vulcan and had adultery with Mars (plug in the=20
Greek names as you wish). He acted confused, saying that he had thought=20
Venus married to Mars, at least in some versions. I say, "acted" confused.=20
It's hard to believe he did not know this. Which made me wonder if perhaps=20
"more" were not involved.
         Anyway, your suggestions add a Homeric twist to the novels, a=20
conflict among the gods played out also in the world of humans. As with the=20
Urth novels, I guess we'd better look again at what the gods may be doing,=20
for and against each other, in the Soldier books. As with the Severian,=20
Silk, and Hornsilk narratives, it looks as if there is probably a=20
"superplot" of divine conflicts going on "above" the scene.
         At some point, Latro recalls learning from Persians (?) that the=20
High God has a house with many servants. Compare one of the dreams in=20
*Detective of Dreams.* As with the gods in the other Wolfe books, these are=20
ultimately servants of the High God, though allowed for a while to play=20
their own games under His superintendence. I have assumed that we will get=20
more hints about the Outsider/Increate (under a different name) when we get=20
to Soldier of Sidon, Sidon being near Israel. But someone said that one=20
will explore Egypt, and I guess we'll all have to brush up on the Egyptian=20
pantheon next!

Nutria

At 12:23 PM 5/7/2003, you wrote:
>I'm reading the soldier books for the second time and I'm about 3/4 through
>Soldier of Arete.  So far, the major gods conspicuous in their absence are
>Zeus, Hermes, and Ares.  While there is a chapter entitled Ares and others,
>I'm pretty sure Ares doesn't make a direct appearance.  Here is my question
>for the list - Is latro an avatar of Ares?  He has all the qualities of Ar=
es
>(thus Soldier of "Are"te.)  There is that big discussion at the beginning =
of
>Soldier of the Mist where they talk about greeting a tradesman who has a
>family in a war by certain titles depending on where he is, and I thought=20
>this
>would apply nicely to Latro - he would seem to be a soldier, so everyone
>treats him as a soldier.  Yet the gods don't treat Latro like just another
>soldier.
>
>There is also a scene in Soldier of Arete in which someone states that Ares
>may be Ahura Mazda, the all good God, in disguise.  There are other=20
>statements
>made that indicate Pleistorus is angry at the Thracian King Kotys for his
>treatment of the amazons and Latro - and note that Latro is especially
>troubled by the death of amazon women - they are the daughters of=20
>Ares.  Also,
>in at least one place the claim is made that Pleistorus (or Ares) is "insi=
de"
>Latro in some sense.  Also, the ironic statement of Hypereides right before
>Part Three of Soldier of Arete (p 498 in the omnibus "'Pleistorus didn't c=
ome
>around to help us.  I wish he had - we could have used him'"  But I think =
he
>did.
>
>The evidence against Ares being Latro must certainly include Latro's early
>memories of his childhood and his farmland.  On the other hand, Nike always
>follows Latro invisibly, and I'm pretty sure Ares is at least living inside
>Latro or possessing him (if he is not entirely homoousious with=20
>Latro).  Could
>it be that the Great Mother is mad at her son?
>
>Also, on a different note, I'm pretty sure the dream of baldanders in the =
Inn
>is related to the mine at saltus: clashing teeth and broken bodies under t=
he
>surface of the earth.  later, he denies that he dreams, at the end of Shad=
ow
>of the Torturer after Malrubius appears.
>
>Anybody else think Latro is divine?
>
>Marc Aramini
>
>
>
>--



--=20

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