Women; Incomprehensible Three

Chris · 09 Sep 2003, 18:58 · from urth-v0309.mbox · original

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From: "Chris" <rasputin_ at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: (urth) Women; Incomprehensible Three
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 18:58:32 +0000
Message-ID: <urth-v0309-4091 at digest.urth.net>
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Hmm. Here I always thought that the Trinity would be something a Buddhist o=
r=20
Hindu would have a much easier time understanding than your average western=20
Christian. Not to say that the understanding reached would be better, but i=
t=20
would seem at least to come more naturally.

Not sure what you mean on the Dorpspraak - it goes on for a little while,=20
but I've not seen him use something like that for hundreds of pages. Side=20
note: your mileage may vary, but I found the dialog between Oreb and the=20
catachrest to be far more annoying and difficult to follow.

Wolfe's women have been commented on fairly extensively here, so I won't=20
drag the whole thing out again. But I think you may already have an answer=20
in what you said toward the end there. I can't think of any character, male=20
or female, in any Wolfe book I have read that is more "stomach-churningly=20
idolized" than Silk (which is not to say that he doesn't have his flaws).=20
And his other male protagonists? Flawed, sometimes deeply so - in some case=
s=20
outright brutal. Does this indicate that Wolfe has issues with men?

I don't dislike most of Wolfe's female characters - in fact, many of them I=20
like better than Wolfe's male protagonists - though it's true that some of=20
them are just not very strong. I don't find that too bothersome, but what=20
*does* bother me is the kind of male-female relationships he sets up. But=20
that's another story, and one best left to archive-browsing.

-- Civet

Sikozu said:
>Incidentally, to those who comment that Buddhism is confusing and mystical=
,=20
>I usually reply by asking them questions about the Trinity until such time=20
>as I am able to throw my hands in the air and say, "You think BUDDHISM is=20
>incomprehensible?!?" I figure they asked for it.
>
>On a third note, there was some discussion before about women in Wolfe.=20
>Well, I must say that while I adore Wolfe, I find his Crypto-Catholicism=20
>and anti-feminism irritating. I have never met the man and can only stand=20
>in awe of his brilliant writing, but no one is perfect and sometimes he is=20
>boring or annoying: "Dorpspraak like Yoda annoying for hundreds of pages=20
>is" - or just angrymaking.
>
>On women, he is angrymaking to me, if I may half-Dorp. His narrators so=20
>consistently paint a world in which women are either divine or divine=20
>bitches, and always incomprehensible, is very very aggravating. Long Sun=20
>and Short Sun beg for a half-decent female character who isn't crap.=20
>General Mint doesn't count, she is the virgin Joan of Arc, beyond humanity=20
>in person.
>
>That's my opinion, held after rereading the books a few times. The women=20
>are stomach-churningly idolised or jammed in the mud, and the 'good men'=20
>casually rape, murder and kill.
>
>Anyway, I'm sure many will disagree, but as a woman that's what I got out=20
>of them. Not to say I don't adore them but Wolfe is clearly tied in knots=20
>about women somewhere and it comes out plain and clear to me.
>
>Of course, my idea of a fun time is reading "Hothead Paisan", so take it=20
>with a grain of salt. ;-)
>
>Sikozu
>http://sikozu.blogspot.com/
>http://members.cox.net/sikozujohnson/
>******
>"I sit for world revolution"
>Alan Ginsberg, 19 July 1981
>
>
>--

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