Ormsby, Michael and Setr

maru dubshinki · 15 Jan 2005, 13:48 · from 2005-January.txt.gz

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From: marudubshinki at gmail.com (maru dubshinki)
Date: Sat Jan 15 13:48:44 2005
Subject: (urth) Ormsby, Michael and Setr
In-Reply-To: <E1Cpuhm-0001M0-MD at oceanus.uk.clara.net>
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	<E1Cpuhm-0001M0-MD at oceanus.uk.clara.net>
Message-ID: <41E98FB9.3030809 at gmail.com>

*Maru pounces!
You my friend, just made a big mistake.
Ragnarok is most definitely NOT the end.
That doens't hold water; both because of the cyclical
elements and numerology in Norse paganism, and because that contradicts 
directly what is said in the Elder/Poetic Edda.
In the Larrington translation, we read in 'The Seeress' Prophecy' that 
after the great battle, after Surt 'high flame plays against heaven 
itself' v57, the seeress continues:
	'She sees, coming up a second time,
	Earth from the ocean, eternally green;
	the waterfall plunges, an eagle soars over it,
	hunting fish on the mountain. v59
and most importantly;
	'The Aesir meet on Idavoll
	and they converse about the mighty Earth-girdler,
	and they remember there the great events
	and the ancient runes of the Mighty One. v60
after that they refind their old hnefatafl game pieces, Baldr will 
return from Hel. 'do you understand yet, or what more?' v63
   More interesting, the part that leads to the 'christian 
interpolation' you revile is v65:
	'Then the powerful, mighty one, he who rules over
	everything,
	will come from above, to the judgementplace of the gods.
I personally think it is Odin but...
And, should you persist in your error of seeing the Norse as inhabiting 
an Eschatological religious framework, check the last, final verse out, 
the one which really clinches the case for cyclicalness.
v66
	There comes the dark dragon flying
	the shining serpent, up from Dark-of-moon Hills
	Nidhogg flies over the plains, in his wings
	he carries corpses; now she must sink down.
Even after ragnarok, evil continues.
You should be more careful what you say.
~Maru
	

Andy Robertson wrote:
> Well the exact meaning of "setr" is "dairy-pasture" according to the 
> Viking Answers Lady (whom it might be well to bookmark).
> http://www.vikinganswerlady.com/
> 
>> Surtur isn't JUST a "primeval" fire giant: he remakes the world after 
>> Ragnarok,
> 
> 
> Pish tosh.  Mere Christian interpolation that.  Ragnarok is the end.
> 
> And Surtur doesn't remake the world (I don't know where you heard that), 
> he burns it all up.
> Also Muspelheim is traditionally Surtur's realm, one of the Nine Worlds
> 
> ***First of worlds was Muspellheim, in the Southern regions. It is 
> bright and hot. That place is aflame, and burning and it is impassable 
> to those who are not native to it. There is one called Surt who is 
> stationed there at the frontier to defend that land. He has a flaming 
> sword and at the end of the world he will go and wage war and burn the 
> whole world with fire***
> (Prose Edda)
> 
> 
> 
> Still, I suspect Wolfe may be trying to smuggle in something else.   
> What???
> 
> 
> 
> and
> 
>> that doesn't sound like Setr. But my main question is if Wolfe meant 
>> Surtur,
>> why didn't he just USE that name? And why Setr of all things? Even if 
>> Wolfe
>> had in mind Surtur in mind as well, is this the PRIMARY reason for his
>> choice of name?
>> ~ Crush
> 
> 
> 
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