OT: watchmen on trial

Gryphoncrossing at aol.com · 22 Mar 2005, 11:20 · from 2005-March.txt.gz

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From: Gryphoncrossing at aol.com (Gryphoncrossing at aol.com)
Date: Tue Mar 22 11:20:59 2005
Subject: (urth) OT: watchmen on trial 
Message-ID: <24.6d41ec8c.2f71ca0d at aol.com>

In a message dated 3/22/2005 2:02:05 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
urth-urth.net-request at lists.urth.net writes:

1]   I suspect, if they're there, Herbet either is commenting on them in a  
negative way, or they're space opera tropes that have snuck in without  
anyone noticing, which can happen if no one's  careful.

>>My first post.

Herbert's initial impulse in writing Dune was to write a criticism of  
Messiah figures, from Jesus to JFK, showing that one SHOULDN'T follow  them.  
Illustrating their actions, in the case of Dune, isn't the same as  condoning those 
actions.

I feel the same way about Watchmen; I found it an illustration of the  
fascist underpinnings of the ubermensch supposedly serving the masses while in  fact 
being above them (sort of like in a socialist country).  

The only fascistic works I've seen in fantasy/sf, short of The Turner  
Diaries, have been unconscious ones, or at least unacknowledged ones.   There are 
many of these in post-Tolkien fantasy fiction.  The tendency of  these power 
fantasies to be so popular with supposedly liberal-minded fantasy  fans is 
something I've always found curious.

I do think Wolfe's books have a touch of this but I think Wolfe is more  
interested in exploring a tradition that stretches back so far that one can't do  
so without including much of this material.  I've never found the impulse  
toward glorifying "superior people" that I've seen in much fantasy  fiction.

John
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