Severian on trial

maru · 22 Mar 2005, 18:05 · from 2005-March.txt.gz

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From: marudubshinki at gmail.com (maru)
Date: Tue Mar 22 18:05:20 2005
Subject: (urth) Severian on trial
In-Reply-To: <20050321104034.72813.qmail at web54205.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20050321104034.72813.qmail at web54205.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4240CEDC.8040803 at gmail.com>

nastler wrote:

>This email is just polite applause from the gallery.
>After weeks of struggling through discussions on
>?Ethical Theory?, (interesting but not much of a
>spectator sport for the layman), I feel a sense of
>pay-off after Civets last post.
>?Judging Severian? is a great topic and I?m hoping it
>sticks around a bit. Your three ethical judgements
>possible on Sev seem about right.
>1.	He may be a psycho but he done what had to be done.
>2.	He took a liberty, but the end justifies the means.
>3.	He is evil and billions died cause of what he did.
>(Footnote)
>But, as you say, we readers perceive that Sev is a
>tool (?the tongs by which we are held??) and judging
>him may not be valid. The higher powers (whether
>divine or secular hardly matter to the average
>Urthling) decide our fate according to their own
>values and objectives.
>  
>
Of course it can be wondered where they
get the right to do so; revenge hardly seems a good
reason to.

>>From a philosophical Urthlings point of view, it could
>be argued that maybe Typhon tries to wriggle out of
>the grips by doing the ?right? thing (evacuation) for
>the ?wrong? reason (continued divine monarchy) but he
>is cast down so Sev can do the ?wrong? thing (Global
>tsunami) for the ?right? reason (avoid ice future).
>  
>
I'd read Typhon's downfall as due to his attempted
usurpation- he starts too late, and in a bungled manner,
and attempts to kill the righful New Sun once (or twice, I
am not sure whether he did in the 'past' New Sun's life.)

>And is Sev comparable with one of us ?true men? from
>the ?free? world? Well, if ?all the world?s a stage?
>then we are ALL cogs in that machine, designed to play
>our part as directed or (presumably) be replaced if
>our improvisations get out of hand. As Civet explained
>to me in a post last year, rebellion is neither
>possible nor desirable; ?the show must go on? I
>suppose. Whether the director is divine and
>intelligent or secular and emergent, our ?bit-part?
>position remains the same. Therefore, freewill equals
>illusion.
>
>Does Wolfe not say something like "best just to copy
>the higher powers cause they are closer to God", with
>a PS that we can also hope they are not so corrupting
>an influence as be believes us to be on our own ?lf?
>  
>
And in the tale of the proud Cock, did he not
have an angel say that they were one and all
equally distant from God?

>Well, with no philosophical tools to handle this I
>don't see how a "monkey see, monkey do" approach leads
>to either ethical codes or free will. What do I know?
>Scientists studying the brain also seem to find
>reasons to doubt the concept of "free will". So I
>suppose whatever way we cut it, we are a manipulated
>species.
>
>Oh well, thanks to Civet for a great post, and all the
>best for the Vernal equinox celebrations to everyone,
>Nastler
>(hoping the Philosopher Kings would get on with it and
>edict the ?few simple rules? for a more ethical world,
>so the rest of us can all stop having to worry about
>it.)
>
>Footnote. This reminds me of when people want to
>discuss war (Iraq or generally) with me. I become
>paralysed by an inability to predict good outcomes
>(e.g. global liberal democracy and human rights)
>coming from bad actions (e.g. bombing a family home).
>The promised land out of sight as I focus on the
>valley of death through which we are led. No doubt I?d
>be an ?Ice future? Urth philosopher, learning about
>thermodynamics from Master Ash as I denounce Abia with
>t-shirts and street theatre. Michael Ignatieff's
>?Political ethics in an age of terror? has been put on
>my read list in an attempt to understand the
>realpolitik from my position of cosy civil
>libertarianism. I can?t say I?m looking forward to it
>too much?
>
>?Pelagic-dwelling, Mind-controlling, Alien Gods? No
>thanks!?
>
>  
>
~Maru

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