Increate on trial

stoneox17 at aol.com · 31 Mar 2005, 08:54 · from 2005-March.txt.gz

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From: stoneox17 at aol.com (stoneox17 at aol.com)
Date: Thu Mar 31 08:54:25 2005
Subject: (urth) Re:  Increate on trial
In-Reply-To: <001701c535c9$3721fc80$a13ec6d8 at rclackey.stic.net>
References: <001701c535c9$3721fc80$a13ec6d8 at rclackey.stic.net>
Message-ID: <8C70428BA32212E-804-164FA at mblk-d47.sysops.aol.com>

 Roy C. Lackey  writes:

>   Adam wrote:
> >But no bigger a problem than those in the real world who died before
> Jesus's
> >birth. For that matter, the inhabitants of Urth are virtually all 
damned
> >anyway. There was a discussion about whether Christianity existed in 
Sev's
> >day a long time ago on the list, but I don't recall what conclusion 
was
> >reached, if any; but if there are any Christians still around, 
they're
> >surely a very small minority.

> Agreed.

Isn't there some dispute about what happened to those who died before 
Jesus
was born?  Jesus' own words from the Bible:

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, the hour is coming, and now is, when 
the dead
shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live" 
(John 5:25).

Doing a little searching on the web, it seems "dead" in this passage is 
often
interpreted as "dead of spirit" and not "dead in the grave," but I 
don't know
what Wolfe's take on this would be.  Until a few months ago, I would 
have said
that Peace showed Wolfe thought the dead could still be saved, but 
since I
recently saw an interview where he explicitly denied having intended 
Weer to
be in Purgatory when he wrote it (although he didn't actually disagree 
with
this interpretation), I'm now not sure where he stands.

> >I've never really understood how Christian readers of Wolfe can take 
the
> >Christian imagery surrounding the New Sun at face value, ignoring 
the fact
> >that unlike Jesus, it brings not salvation but indiscriminate death 
and
> >damnation.

> >(Incidentally, I don't like the idea that the Sun cycle takes place 
in a
> >previous universe either -- I'd like to believe that it was 
something Wolfe
> >dreamed up after the fact, so I could reject it with a clear 
conscience --
> >but since Wolfe did say it, I feel I have to take it into account.)

> Maybe Wolfe placed the Sun cycle in a previous universe in an attempt 
to
> dodge the problem presented by the Incarnation that I mentioned. But 
both
> Newton and Einstein would frown on uncaused effects -- those Christian
> symbols.

Stone Ox

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