Digest whorl.v012.n105

James Jordan · 18 Apr 2001, 13:32 · from whorl-v0012.mbox · original

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From: James Jordan <jbjordan4 at home.com>
Subject: Re: (whorl) Re: Digest whorl.v012.n105
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 13:32:15
Message-ID: <whorl-v0012-0634 at digest.urth.net>
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At 01:28 PM 4/18/2001 -0400, Slimy wrote:

>Ratty, while I appreciate the general tone of your screed, I have to
>object to its specifics (well, you knew I would, didn't you?).

         Sure I did, Slimy. It was my purpose to draw you back into the=20
discussion. ;-)

>Specifically, then, not only is there no rape in The Odyssey, but women
>are treated as powerful and controlling figures. There are four
>important featured players, as I recall: Calypso, Circe, Nausica and
>Penelope. Helen and Athena are significant background figures, while the
>women he encounters at the boundary of Hades are formidable, if
>sorrowful. Nausica is only a girl, but as a princess she compels
>respect, and much of the story is told directly to her and her father.
>No one could possibly call the other women victims. The outlook is so
>feminist that Samuel Butler, in fact, speculated that the true author of
>The Odyssey was a woman (Robert Graves concurred, alo c.f. Harold Bloom
>and -The Book of J-). Women in the Greek plays get somewhat similar
>treatment. (I hedge because this is a big subject and could be argued
>for a long time; also there is the actual position of women in Greek
>society, which was not so hot.) The Iliad, granted, is different, a war
>story, and two women are treated as sex slaves. Their male counterparts
>were slaughtered, however--plus ca change.

  snip

         Okay. Good point. Instead of using the Greeks, I should have=20
simply pointed to the history of the world in general.

snip

Yes, this is the point that I bump up against. Why, when so much of
>these books, or this book as we might as well call it, has to do with
>S/H's coming not only to terms, but coming to love as a father these
>three demonic creatures--a subject I found truly enthralling and worthy
>of serious contemplation--does he throw it all away so quickly? He
>started way back with Quetzal, an interesting, complicated character.
>The end of RttW seems to make trivial a huge investment of effort in a
>really chewy subject.

         I still disagree. I think Jahlee's death is moving, and though it=20
puts the narrator in a bad light, I think it communicates well to the=20
reader. Jahlee dies AS A HUMAN, as a PERSON. Her death is, so to speak, her=20
last step into true humanity. I know it did not have effect on you, so=20
maybe Wolfe could have done a better job here; but I think most readers=20
will feel as I do.
         As for the narrator, well I've suggested that may this is the=20
emerging Silk, who does not have the same sympathy for the inhumi that Horn=20
has learned to have -- though I'm still not sure who the narrator is=20
supposed to be at the end of the book. If anything, that's the point of=20
Wolfe's failure as far as I'm concerned. I did not care to "meet Silk"=20
again in such a way. ("Hurray! It's Silk again!" Gimmeabreak!) It also=20
seems rather pointless, since the novel SEEMS to be about Horn's=20
development, and just to wipe him out, or submerge him into Silk -- well,=20
it does not work for me! And so, I guess I agree with your point.
         I'd still rather think that it's Horn at the end, still being=20
transformed by Silky influences, and that his attack on Jahlee was a lapse=20
back into his "old nature." But I've been persuaded that I'm probably=20
wrong, and that all the rest of you are right -- though I don't like it.

The Rat


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