Soul swapping and time bending thesis

maa32 · 05 Jan 2002, 19:11 · from whorl-v0013.mbox · original
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From: maa32 <maa32 at dana.ucc.nau.edu>
Subject: Soul swapping and time bending thesis
Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 12:11:52 -0700
Message-ID: <whorl-v0013-whorl.v012.n182.1 at digest.urth.net>
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In response to my crazed and unorganized theories involving Horn in Babbie =
and=20
Neighbors as some kind of tree or something, Nutria kindly (and thoroughly,=
 in=20
a much more organized fashion than I have formulated it so far) replied:

>
Good point. The 3-horn business comes after the rule. Now, am I understandi=
ng=20
you right? Are you saying that Horn's spirit first goes into Silk's body, a=
nd=20
then when Silk is revived by Severian, Horn enters Babbie's body? That's an=20
intriguing thesis. I'd like to hear from some of the others on this list, w=
ho=20
have devoted more attention to the problem of who the Narrator is at variou=
s=20
points.
        Now, rather than repost all of your interesting missive, let me ask=20
this: Are you suggesting that the Green Man who meets Severian might be a=20
Neighbor from Ushas? From what you wrote, I gather you are suggesting=20
something like this:

        1. Urth becomes Ushas.
        2. Intelligent plants, perhaps "descended" from humans, take over=20
Ushas as Neighbors/Green Men.
        3. Neighbors create inhumi on Green/Lune.
        4. Much later, they transcend Ushas and "move on."
        5. The Whorl arrives back at Ushas/Lune (Blue/Green), perhaps a=20
million years later (because I don't see how all the above could have happe=
ned=20
in 1000 years).

        I'm not trying to be funny, just trying to figure out what your the=
sis=20
is. Perhaps you can unpack it.
>

This is great Nutria, I think it is a wonderful way of organizing all of my=20
incoherent gaps.  Instead of saying that Severian ressurects Silk in Horn, =
I=20
am suggesting that a part of Horn leaves Silk's body at the very end of On=20
Blue's Waters, at which point he loses some sense of himself as Horn, and=20
therefore re-reads the manuscript he has to piece together what is going on=20
and notes all the things he left out.  Note that On Blue's Waters is mostly=
 in=20
the past and only details the present situation of the narrator in small ga=
ps,=20
whereas In Green's Jungles is primarily in the present but recounts Horn's=20
journeys through small snipets and through third person stories (such as hi=
s=20
stories at the dinner table in Inclito's (Windcloud's) house where he calls=20
himself "he" instead of "I").  In Return to the Whorl, Babbie returns to hi=
m=20
and he looks him in the eye (also, neighbors are all over the place in that=20
book, and supposedly he has "Seawrack's" ring again) and can complete=20
transmitting Horn into Babbie (I'm not sure if this goes on, or whether Hor=
n=20
takes his leave at the end of Book 1: just remember how much meaner the Hor=
n=20
of On Blue's Waters seems than the narrator of In Green's Jungles and Retur=
n=20
to the Whorl).

I am not sure why he meets Severian, but I am pretty sure that Silk needed =
to=20
leave Pig in order to re-possess his own body, and that this happened at th=
e=20
sickbay where the screen was silvery-gray, (note the warnings of the doctor=
:=20
pay attention to your monitor.  Don't piss in the wind.) but I have no idea=20
exactly where Silk came back into possession of his body in toto. I think S=
ilk=20
and Horn are both in fragments in Silk's body (but again, I am not entirely=20
confident that it is Silk's original body.  Fava calls him Dervis, Horn's=20
father thinks he is Parietal, and he seems mighty light [a slug gun knocks =
him=20
off his horse] and reluctant to eat, at one point (maybe in astral travel) =
he=20
doesn't have the scars on his arms from fighting Hierax).  Fragments of Hor=
n=20
leave, but leave a little behind (just like godly possession), with the=20
largest portion fleeing into Babbie at the end of On Blue's Waters, leaving=20
Silk to kill the rest to take over full possession.
I really think that the trees are related to the neighbors, but I am just n=
ot=20
sure if they are the green man, and I just can't account for the doubling o=
f=20
limbs (for all creatures, big and small!).  That's the biggest problem for =
me,=20
unless it is yet another alternate branch like Master Ash/ Green Man: they=20
can't both exist.  I don't like that, because there doesn't seem to be ANY=20
textual evidence for alternate realities in the Book of the Short Sun. I am=20
saying that the trip to the past is important because it allows Scylla=20
(Cillinia) to communicate with Greater Scylla and gives Silk a chance to le=
arn=20
how to get Seawrack from the future Greater Scylla (or her sister, or=20
whatever).  He does a favor for them both by returning Cillinia to her rest=
ing=20
place, which would have been destroyed in the flood, so this is the last ti=
me=20
(or an approximation of that time) at which Silk can arrive and perform thi=
s=20
service for Scylla.  Severian is important because he allows this service t=
o=20
Scylla to be completed since he is material and can lay her to rest, wherea=
s=20
if Silk opened the tomb it might become undone: remember how the neighbor=20
asked Horn to clear out the sewer in Green with all the corpses?  He said h=
e=20
could do it, but it would become undone if he did it and be clogged again. =
 I=20
think that the Neighbor was present to Horn in the same way that Silk is=20
present in Urth.  He needed Severian to lay Scylla to rest forever.
This allows Silk to get a hold on Seawrack (and if you are at all intereste=
d=20
in an unbiased presentation of Seawrack, read the afterward and see how she=
 is=20
described as a bestial creature ready to stick a knife in anything except=20
Father), who is very important.  Also, remember who commissions Hari Mau to=20
bring back Silk: all his men keep having dreams about Echidna, the mother=20
goddess.  On Blue, I'm pretty sure these dreams are being sent by The=20
Mother/Greater Scylla unless Echidna is hiding in a cow down there. That=20
Mother is important, and I think the conclusion deals more with foiling the=20
Mother's plot by placating her in the past (with the Savior Severian's  hel=
p)=20
than with ressurecting Silk.
Yes, I would say that the whorl has been gone for a very long time. =20
There are still some things I really think don't fit with all this, but you=20
have encapsulated where I think one reading of the text can take us in a ve=
ry=20
nice fashion, Nutria.  Thanks for taking the time to figure out what I'm=20
trying to say: as I said, I had many different ideas about the text that I =
can=20
not quite unify. I am not sure where the Vanished People are in the time of=20
Book of the Short Sun: at times, it seems that they are everywhere, especia=
lly=20
when Hoof randomly looks through the ring and sees one just hanging out in =
the=20
ocean on a big tree. Are they really from the past?
And, interestingly enough, there is that skeleton in the huge tower that=20
Jahlee has made her home on Green, which she calls Silk's "friend" which sh=
e=20
throws out, then at the top of the cliff he meets that man coming towards t=
hem=20
in the colorless cloak.  do you remember that scene in Return to the Whorl?=
 =20
Who wears a colorless cloak?  Maybe Andy was right and Severian's spirit is=
 on=20
Lune. Does colorless mean clear/ white or fulligin?  I don't know.  That pa=
rt=20
creeps me out.  Have we talked about that apparition?  And why does Silk=20
resemble Malrubius so much?  Where they grown from the same embryo - why wo=
uld=20
they do that? Did Urth have sufficient technology to preserve an embryo for=
 a=20
thousand years and randomly grow it?  Maybe that is why Silk can go back to=20
that time period - his soul is essentially the same as Malrubius', and once=20
Malrubius is dead he has an opening.  I don't know. Let's not incorporate t=
his=20
into my thesis - it's more random speculation. Thanks for you attention,=20
Nutria.  I appreciate it.
Marc Aramini
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