more on time

Kieran Cleary · 08 Jan 2002, 12:57 · from whorl-v0013.mbox · original

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From: Kieran Cleary <kcleary at jb.man.ac.uk>
Subject: (whorl) more on time
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 12:57:41 +0000 (GMT)
Message-ID: <whorl-v0013-whorl.v012.n184.4 at digest.urth.net>
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Ahh, this takes me back. I'm afraid I too still nurse the
sickly Blue/Green=3DUrth/Lune hypothesis. Poor thing, but there's life in it
yet.=20

If this idea is to have legs again, can anyone address the lack of support
in the text for lower gravity on Green, besides alarmingly tall trees?

Kieran C.

On Sun, 6 Jan 2002, maa32 wrote:

> Michael Andre-Druissi states
>=20
> >But this isn't time travel: it is instantaneous travel across hundreds of
>         light years of space. It is "real time" on Urth, just as it is on=20
> Blue.
>=20
>         The Claw bends time in THE BOOK OF THE NEW SUN, and Severian trav=
els
>         through time in URTH OF THE NEW SUN, yes. But Silkhorn's trip to =
Urth=20
> is
>         not a form of time travel (except in the completely different sen=
se=20
> that
>         time has been negated from the time/space matrix, and the party=20
> astrally
>         crosses vast space in zero time).
> >
>=20
> What I am saying is that it IS time travel and that Urth IS Blue (or rath=
er,=20
> that Ushas is Blue) and that the new sun has melted the polar ice caps an=
d=20
> caused the sea to be less salty, that the orbit of Lune (called "Green" b=
y=20
> Hoof) has been altered, and that the vanished people are the remnants of =
a=20
> vegetable/human civilization.  (Hoof goes at great length to say that the=20
> differences in the ocean are its color from the sun and stars, its saltin=
ess,=20
> and the closeness of "green".  All of these changes can be accounted for =
by=20
> the coming of the New Sun - I just can't figure out why that particular t=
ime=20
> is the one that draws Silk.  In addition, he says that the narrator's voi=
ce=20
> sounds as if it was spoken long ago in a place far away.  I don't think t=
hey=20
> travel anywhere - in addition, Juganu says that Inhumu are everywhere (an=
d=20
> Jahlee casts suspicions on Merryn), whereas the narrator previously said =
that=20
> only three whorls needed to be considered when thinking of the inhumu.) T=
he=20
> anchor that allows the travel to that particular point is unclear to me i=
f=20
> Urth and Blue are one location (but I think it might be the Malrubius/Sil=
k=20
> connection - would a cloned embryo have an affinity for the soul of anoth=
er=20
> cloned embryo? Or perhaps it is close to the last time that Cillinia can =
be=20
> lain to rest by a human being, since humans can't normally survive underw=
ater=20
> - I can't figure it out, but there are a lot of clues in that chapter tha=
t=20
> point to Urth being blue that I think would be imprudent to ignore).  The=
re=20
> are too many weird bits of contiguity between the Blue of the new Short S=
un=20
> whorl (like that big wall underwater that Seawrack talks about) for the=20
> possibility that the two planets are not the same to be dismissed out of =
hand.
>  I fully understand that it SEEMS that they are two different planets in =
the=20
> same continuum and that the only reason Silk can go there is because Rigo=
glio=20
> wants to be home, but I think there is more going on with that.  Also, as=
 I've=20
> said before, the narrator says the only return to the past is through dre=
ams,=20
> talks of reaching through the past to grab a man with two heads in a drea=
m, he=20
> talks about his astral travel as a dream, and the greater Scylla might be=
 the=20
> same as the mother - in fact, Silk asks the greater Scylla about Seawrack=
,=20
> then seems to find Seawrack without consulting the Mother when he returns=
 to=20
> Blue.
> Hoof also talks about constructing a sea anchor at some length in chapter=
 17=20
> of Return to the Whorl.  An anchor keeps you in one place. My theory here=20
> touches on the idea that Blue and Urth do not exist at the same time, and=
 the=20
> vast distance that separates the red sun whorl from Blue is one of time=20
> INSTEAD of space (except for the space that the planets have traveled thr=
ough=20
> the universe in that great expanse of time).
> Marc Aramini
>=20
>=20
>=20
> *This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun.
> *More Wolfe info & archive of this list at http://www.moonmilk.com/whorl/
> *To leave the list, send "unsubscribe" to whorl-request at lists.best.com
> *If it's Wolfe but not Long Sun, please use the URTH list: urth at lists.bes=
t.com
>=20
>=20

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