unsuscrible-Digest whorl.v008.n053

Internet Megantic · 17 Jul 1998, 16:28 · from whorl-v0008.mbox · original
This is the message as the crawl holds it, before anything here touched it. What the conversation shows has been through ingest: transfer encodings decoded, attachments dropped, quote markers repaired, and the archiver’s ? resolved into quotation marks and dashes. Those repairs are judgements and some of them are wrong, which is what this page is for. Email addresses are obscured here as they are everywhere else on the site, so it is before our repairs rather than byte for byte.
From: Internet Megantic <support at megantic.net>
Subject: (whorl) unsuscrible-Digest whorl.v008.n053
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 16:28:20
Message-ID: <whorl-v0008-0672 at digest.urth.net>
X-Urthmirror-Source: http://www.urth.net/whorl/archives/v0008/0672.shtml
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

At 14:10 16-07-98 -0700, you wrote:
>
>-------------- BEGIN whorl.v008.n053 --------------
>
>    001 - Michael Straight <straigh - Re: Fwd: (whorl) Gods
>    002 - mary whalen <marewhalen@y - (whorl) Greek Gods
>    003 - "Mark Millman" <Mark_Mill - apology
>
>WHORL Digest -- for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun
>
>
>--------------- MESSAGE whorl.v008.n053.1 ---------------
>
>From: Michael Straight <straight at email.unc.edu>
>Subject: Re: Fwd: (whorl) Gods
>Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 16:50:34 -0400 (EDT)
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=3DUS-ASCII
>In-Reply-To: <Pine.A41.3.95L.980714085044.91618E-100000 at login2.isis.unc.ed=
u>
>
>On Wed, 15 Jul 1998, prion lots of really nifty background on the names
>Wolfe used for the gods of the Whorl, including:
>
>> I think something important may be in an analysis of the Mainframe
>> gods' names in relation to their characteristics.
>> =20
>> Pas:  Greek for all.  Pseudonym Typhon uses.  Typhon or Typhoeus was
>> either a giant or a many-headed dragon that breathed fire who defeated
>> the gods and cut out Zeus' muscles until Zeus regained them and buried
>> him under Mt. Etna, or some other volcano or in the region of
>> Tartaros.
>
>Hmmm.  Typhon the many-headed.  Since the whole point of Typhon grafting
>his head onto a new body was to preserve his personal identity authority,
>it seems unlikely that he took a new name ("Typhon") after becoming
>many-headed.  So perhaps he got the idea from his name?=20
>
>> Tartaros:  Not a Greek word.  God of the underworld, or the place
>> itself.  Child either of the original Chaos, or of Typhon and Echidna.
>>  Tartaros was said to be as far below Hades (also named after it's
>> master) as Hades was below the Earth.  In the Whorld Tartaros is the
>> god of night, crime, and commerce.
>
>'Tartaros' is not Greek?  Or are you saying it's not the word for anything
>other than the god of the underworld?  Webster's 17th lists 'Tartarus' and
>says it's from the Greek.
>
>When you say "or of Typhon and Echidna" do you mean that in Wolfe's story
>he's their child, or is that also true in Greek myth?
>
>> Hierax.  Greek for eagle.  The eagle who tormented Prometheus, by
>> eating his liver each day, which grew back.  Child of Typhon and
>> Echidna, or others.  In the Whorl the god of death, who likes to
>> torment others.
>
>Again, is Hierax the offspring of Typhon and Echidna in Greek myth as
>well? I had no idea so much of the Whorl mythos came straight from the
>Greek.=20
>
>> Looking over the list, it seems that about every "god" has a serious
>> mental problem.  Typhon is monomaniacal, Scylla is egotistic, Hierax
>> is sadistic, Sphigx is hyperaggressive, Molpe has fits of insanity,
>> Thelxiepeia was probably a drug addict and poisoner, Phaea eats too
>> much, and Kypris is a nymphomaniac.  Any ideas about the others'
>> possible problems?
>
>Tartaros is blind.  Not a mental problem, but a similar theme, perhaps.
>You'd think Typhon would have used genetic engineering or married better
>breeding stock to have more perfect children.
>
>I love the bit where Tartaros tells Auk, "You can't see me because I'm
>blind."=20
>
>-Rostrum
>
>
>
>--------------- MESSAGE whorl.v008.n053.2 ---------------
>
>From: mary whalen <marewhalen at yahoo.com>
>Subject: (whorl) Greek Gods
>Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 17:22:45 -0700 (PDT)
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
boundary=3D"-2131475428-838545539-900548565=3D:22833"
>
>---2131475428-838545539-900548565=3D:22833
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Dus-ascii
>Content-Disposition: inline
>
>
>
>note: forwarded msg attached.
>
>Oops.  Looks like I sent this to the Urth list first.
>
>
>_________________________________________________________
>DO YOU YAHOO!?
>Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>---2131475428-838545539-900548565=3D:22833
>Content-Type: message/rfc822
>
>Received: from [207.50.113.29] by send1b; Wed, 15 Jul 1998 17:15:27 PDT
>Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 17:15:27 -0700 (PDT)
>From: mary whalen <marewhalen at yahoo.com>
>Subject: (urth) Greek Gods
>To: urth at lists.best.com
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Dus-ascii
>Content-Length: 2534
>
>This is Sean Whalen (prion).
>
>Rostrum, I'm always happy to elaborate.
>
>All the gods/monsters from Greek mythology which I said had names that
>aren't Greek words had their names borrowed from the names of other
>gods who were not Greek, or else the origin of their name is unknown
>but doesn't seem to come from a Greek word.  Tartaros is probably
>comes from a word that the people who lived in Greece before the
>Greeks came had.  Thyone and her older name Semele are apparently the
>names of non-Greek gods who came to be worshipped by the Greeks.=20
>Catamitus is how the Romans pronounced Ganymedes (in English Ganymede)
>which is not a Greek word either, and it's origin is unknown.
>
>When I say that a monster is the child of Typhon and Echidna or
>others, I mean that in the Greek legends it is uncertain because some
>legends say one thing that others disagree with.  All of the people
>who are children of T and E on the Whorl have the names of
>monsters/gods who were said to be the children of the Greek T and E in
>at least one source, though there is disagreement concerning every
>single one of them.  It is even uncertain if in the Greek myths T and
>E were brother and sister, if Typhon and Typhoeus are two different
>people, and if Typhon is Typhoeus' father, or vice versa.
>
>Yes, much of the Whorl religion is based directly on Greek sources.
>
>Tartaros being blind.  Yes; and it is possible that this is a problem
>of his brain, rather than his eyes, which would fit in with the rest
>of his family.  It certainly would be odd for his eyes to be
>irreplaceable, especially since Typhon wouldn't have minded using any
>available source for replacements.
>
>
>I think I have some new thoughts on Pas' name.  In Greek pas if the
>masculine form of the word "all."  The neuter form of this word is
>pan.  Wolfe said he once thought that the Greek god Pan was the word
>for all, and that he used to be the main god that the Greeks
>worshipped.  He was corrected by someone who wrote a letter to him.=20
>Actually, Pan's name is a masculine word, just like the names of all
>male Greek gods.  It would be odd for him to be the only male with a
>neuter name.  Pan comes from a shortening of the older form Paon,
>which comes from the word for "feeder" and is related to his Roman
>equivalent Faunus.  Wolfe probably had Typhon use this name because he
>is also not the god of all, as his name is taken by everyone else.
>
>prion
>_________________________________________________________
>DO YOU YAHOO!?
>Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
>---2131475428-838545539-900548565=3D:22833--
>
>
>--------------- MESSAGE whorl.v008.n053.3 ---------------
>
>From: "Mark Millman" <Mark_Millman at hmco.com>
>Subject: apology
>Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 14:31:48 -0400
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Dus-ascii
>Content-Disposition: inline
>
> Folks,
>
> I'm writing to apologize in advance for a pointless note that I'll be
>sending to some of you.  I'm going on vacation for a week, and have (I
>hope) set my mail program to generate an automatic response to all incoming
>mail.  The program I'm using, however, won't allow me to exclude certain
>classes of message, so that anyone who writes to me will get the response
>
>
>whether they should or not.  I have, however, set the device to generate
>only one response per correspondent, rather than one response to each
>message.  So I'm sorry for sending you the pointless note, but at least
>you'll only see it once.
>
> Mark Millman
>
>
>
>
>--------------- END whorl.v008.n053 ---------------
>
>
>*This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun.
>*More Wolfe info & archive of this list at http://www.moonmilk.com/whorl/
>*To leave the list, send "unsubscribe" to whorl-request at lists.best.com
>*If it's Wolfe but not Long Sun, please use the URTH list: urth at lists.best=
.com
>
>
/Serges
Internet Megantic
http://www.megantic.net/


*More Wolfe info & archive of this list at http://www.moonmilk.com/whorl/
An unofficial mirror of a public mailing list · about & removal requests · download the archive · before the list · original archive at urth.net