Digest whorl.v012.n007Whorl

I hereby bet everyone on this list fifty cents apiece that the giant figure on RETURN TO THE WHORL's cover is either a) the Outsider, b) Silk, c) Silk/Pas, d) Gene Wolfe, or e) some mixture of any of the above. I doubt that Wolfe would resort to that cheesy trope of sticking himself in the book, but you never know.... Jacob *This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun.

Sadly I don't think IGJ is even half as good. I thought OBW was wonderful, but IGJ is getting too confusing with its astral dream travel all over the place. Also do we really need yet another story about how a clever man helps defeat a superior enemy on the battlefield by a ruse of some sort? This occurred not only in OBW as well, but constantly in Western literature since at least the Iliad. I missed the point of this part of the plot. The obscurity of who the protagonist is and why he does what he does left me a bit irritated after a while. Too much magic and uncertainty seems to be creeping into the plot, and it makes it much harder to identify with the protagonist's problems or choices. As has been pointed out before, why doesn't he just try, with Fava's help perhaps, to astral travel back to Nettle, where he says he wants to be? On a point of detail, I didn't read the bit where the narrator sees Silk covered in blood as being a suicide attempt - since he's meant to be getting a new body, a dead or dying post-suicide one wouldn't be very effective! The speculation about a head removal is fascinating, though I confess I just read it as a sacrificial orgy to try to revitalise Hyacinth. The cover for RTTW looks pretty bad, but they've been going downhill since OBW. Could be a giant super-Baldanders type in RTTW, though the one pictured is far too big for earth strength gravity (which is why Baldanders went underwater ofcourse). Or could be Wolfe in a silly hat, but I hope not! Tim *This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun.

Sadly I don't think IGJ is even half as good. I thought OBW was wonderful, but IGJ is getting too confusing with its astral dream travel all over the place. Also do we really need yet another story about how a clever man helps defeat a superior enemy on the battlefield by a ruse of some sort? This occurred not only in OBW as well, but constantly in Western literature since at least the Iliad. I missed the point of this part of the plot. The obscurity of who the protagonist is and why he does what he does left me a bit irritated after a while. Too much magic and uncertainty seems to be creeping into the plot, and it makes it much harder to identify with the protagonist's problems or choices. As has been pointed out before, why doesn't he just try, with Fava's help perhaps, to astral travel back to Nettle, where he says he wants to be? On a point of detail, I didn't read the bit where the narrator sees Silk covered in blood as being a suicide attempt - since he's meant to be getting a new body, a dead or dying post-suicide one wouldn't be very effective! The speculation about a head removal is fascinating, though I confess I just read it as a sacrificial orgy to try to revitalise Hyacinth. The cover for RTTW looks pretty bad, but they've been going downhill since OBW. Could be a giant super-Baldanders type in RTTW, though the one pictured is far too big for earth strength gravity (which is why Baldanders went underwater ofcourse). Or could be Wolfe in a silly hat, but I hope not! Tim *This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun.

You mean like the cheesy authors of stories like "The Last Thrilling Wonder Story" and "The Fifth Head of Cerebus?" Yeah, you're probably right... *This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun.

I hope that GW will do exactly what he thinks is the right thing to do and not be influenced by message boards. I've loved many GW books but have yet to read one written by committee or message board, nor would I want to. Just my two cents :) Dennis/Endy http://home.mindspring.com/~endymion9/index.htm