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Surely the Increate's garages would be in a yet higher "universe." I might note that, to some degree, all out terms are inadequate for what we are describing. People simply don't…
19 Dec 2010, 14:38
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Exactly. You just can't separate these things, and Wolfe doesn't want us to.…
19 Dec 2010, 13:53
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Sound. I agree that "galaxies" fits better than planets, because there are gulfs and then there are inconceivable gulfs. I like Ultan as Cyriaca's uncle, who knows lots of storie…
18 Dec 2010, 23:27
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Yes, and recall the naming of Iubar Street. Good point about Severian drowning the library. Worse than the burning of the library at Alexandria.…
18 Dec 2010, 22:00
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That's exactly what it is: an obvious reference not to a Conciliator but to a Christian missionary system, in our universe.…
18 Dec 2010, 19:09
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I think that is a vitally important concept in reading Wolfe. Once again, BOTNS, like all other books, is a book made of other books, and the Bible is stories.…
18 Dec 2010, 16:42
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Well put.…
18 Dec 2010, 16:39
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I know what you mean. On one hand, the Alice quote is a legitimate literary allusion. On the other hand, Jonas quotes it. It appears that Urth has tracked Earth unnervingly closely…
17 Dec 2010, 21:53
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That line is ambiguous, but I conservatively read that as meaning "between suns." In other words, a "creation" is a world in that case, not a universe. Perhaps a survey of Severian…
17 Dec 2010, 21:44
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There's no doubt that Urth is Earth in some physical sense. --- On Fri, 12/17/10, Ryan Dunn <ryan at liftingfaces.com> wrote: From: Ryan Dunn <ryan at liftingfaces.com> Subject: …
17 Dec 2010, 21:41
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it's certainly a valid point, although not every object gets to be carried into space to the end/beginning of the universe by the Conciliator to be cast into the fuligin void. ---…
17 Dec 2010, 21:39
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Yes, thanks Witz. I love this stuff, and have never heard of it. This site looks remarkable. It's not the world's first temple, however, though it may be the world's oldest (and it…
17 Dec 2010, 21:05
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It's NOT a contemporary painting---it doesn't exist in this universe, as far as anyone here has been able to discover. Therefore, it is a product of Briah in Severian's past. --- …
17 Dec 2010, 20:11
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How does your quote support your conclusions? How does it address incarnations? No one has suggested that paintings of astronauts survived the death of universes. --- On Fri, 12/1…
17 Dec 2010, 20:07
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Andrew, I think the theology and the text converge on these points. Thanks for putting it so well.…
17 Dec 2010, 12:55
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I think it is unnecessary to study too closely the question of incarnations and universes. Seems to me that the question of how many incarnations can fit into the multiverse depe…
17 Dec 2010, 12:52
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I agree, and I think that's a sound point about not repeating the Incarnation (which seems to be the term we have adopted and I will try to use!). I think many clues point to an…
17 Dec 2010, 12:42
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They left out Samuel Delany. ???…
17 Dec 2010, 01:38
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Jeff, you made me google him. Thanks. Some crazy stuff here: Having reached the limit of its organized complexity <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complexity#Disorganized_complexit…
17 Dec 2010, 01:32
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I think this issue is a critical point. Certainly something to be addressed in discussing whether entire universes may have been left in the dark by chance or intent. Personally…
17 Dec 2010, 01:27
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And by the same logic, there may have been a dozen of these people---Jesuses, Christs, dud Christs as Gerry says, or full-blown messiahs---that we have forgotten entirely. Almost…
17 Dec 2010, 01:19
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As I thought, my distinction was one without much difference. In any case, in my understanding grace was retroactively applied to good pagans, and the question of the orthodoxy o…
17 Dec 2010, 01:13
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David, I am glad I asked. You nailed it. Wolfe has us for a larf once again.…
17 Dec 2010, 01:08
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I think this is correct. I presented my scheme of gradual improvement/enlightenment because Severian specifically describes it and it helps sort out why one iteration would have …
17 Dec 2010, 01:05
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No. All of this is false, except that Al-Lah is mentioned and the Increate exists. I am baffled by this question. Why indeed? Again, what? Dionysus is a strong allusion. Just l…
17 Dec 2010, 01:01
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And that is half the point. We can agree on that at least. Of course, then you have to wonder what happened to him. Perhaps he was not crucified; and with no resulting salvation,…
17 Dec 2010, 00:49
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Better check with the theologians on that. Here, Wolfe's probable beliefs must trump our own.…
16 Dec 2010, 22:23
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Now you're making things up. First, what evidence? Second, what difference are you talking about?…
16 Dec 2010, 22:22
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Well, it's not a concern of mine, so I'm trying to stick with what I understand as the technical definition. Yes, but with a loophole for really good pagans. ;)…
16 Dec 2010, 19:15
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I thought you wanted to argue from the text. You're arguing from Gerry's gut now. Christ is plainly NOT in the story. And this makes sense if we accept, as we have been told, th…
16 Dec 2010, 19:13
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As I tried to specifically state, grace is not salvation but rather a consolation prize for nonbelievers. Let's let the theologians parse that. But for you to insist that salvati…
16 Dec 2010, 19:02
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I think it is. Yes, whatever drop ceiling the Witches had were lost long ago. That's why they are so grumpy.…
16 Dec 2010, 18:58
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Further, since we seem to have "progressive nesting" in the sense that each Urth develops along similar lines (i.e., parallel) while each iteration also progresses, we could roug…
16 Dec 2010, 18:57
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Just like the Sign of Addition. Is it a past survival or a future one? I was going to mention to Lee the other day that his theory reminded me of Childhood's End, where an advan…
16 Dec 2010, 18:09
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Yeah, Aslan kind of dominates the flavor, doesn't he? More cilantro!…
16 Dec 2010, 17:58
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Possibly. That seems a bit literal to me. One could go further and speculate that such a universe is the one we would experience, because we would create it ... because that is w…
16 Dec 2010, 17:57
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Ah, OK. Yes, although Tolkien did not worship the Ainur or Iluvatar, they aren't exactly heretical. Melkor, of course, is Lucifer/Satan. Tolkien was following in the footsteps o…
16 Dec 2010, 17:20
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I understood that to be James' point. Tolkien was a Christian writer.…
16 Dec 2010, 17:03
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Why is it a great leap? Either other paths of salvation exist, or they do not. I have never heard of any such, except that many have commented that heathens may attain grace and…
16 Dec 2010, 17:01
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Sound answers!…
16 Dec 2010, 15:30
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As someone who is weak on the technicalities of the Trinity, I like that. Perhaps Dionysus is the eternal spirit of the Son without having had material expression, at least not o…
16 Dec 2010, 14:21
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For those of you who want to talk about architecture, here is the full text about the Witches' Tower: I entered a tower very different from our own. Ours was oppressively solid,…
16 Dec 2010, 12:58
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Is it possible that all this writing is "the writing of the astronomers" to Severian? And would that be Greek? Or astrological signs? Or calculus? Or English?…
16 Dec 2010, 12:36
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For me, that is the basic premise of BOTNS. It supersedes any scheme of universes, in that the correct scheme must allow the Father to be separated from the Son. If the Logos is…
16 Dec 2010, 12:28
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---Yes, that's how I took it. Surely Wolfe was being ironic, if Silk was not. ---That would make sense in a universe in which that promise was made. I'm not saying it wasn't mad…
16 Dec 2010, 02:07
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I understand what you're saying. I just disagree. This is a fictional universe---it need follow no laws but those of its Creator. ;)…
16 Dec 2010, 02:03
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It's not terribly different from "Increate." We can guess what that term includes but not so easily what it excludes.…
16 Dec 2010, 01:41
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Interesting. While those possibilities are not disprovable, I think they are false. As to your answer---none of those are disprovable either. There is no answer to those questio…
16 Dec 2010, 01:31
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SF has also been tried on as "speculative fiction." But all it is is an alternative---or the original---to "sci-fi," which is a marketing creation more or less synonymous with "b…
16 Dec 2010, 01:26
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Oh, yes it does. Did the Outsider die on the cross here on Earth, or did he "give his only begotten son" who did that? That's one little point of difference…
15 Dec 2010, 23:25
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