(no subject)

Marc Aramini · 09 Nov 2011, 22:45 · from 2011-November.txt.gz

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From: marcaramini at yahoo.com (Marc Aramini)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 14:45:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject: (urth) (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <SNT123-W3559FC853F84694F0C6D25CFDF0 at phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <1320878720.86239.YahooMailClassic at web161804.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

My problem with all this is that Blue is colder than Urth is colder than Green - that city under the water is a MacGuffin, we are meant to look at it and try to find a way to map Urth onto it but there is just no way to do it and the mechanism is just not there to explain how they accidentally wind up on Urth when they mean to go to Green.  I firmly believed blue was Urth/Ushas until Gene corrected me.  I don't see Blue as Ushas.  It's the coldest of the three (two) worlds.  It's something else.

And I like literal truths to explain things in Wolfe; I feel that is how he utilizes symbols.  Thus my opinion Latro really IS Pleistorus, Weer really IS dead, Green really IS Urth, Silk really IS Typhon's son, Kypris really IS Mamelta, the rajan really IS Silk after OBW, etc etc etc.  I think that's how Wolfe operates when he creates his identity mysteries: that there is a real tacit solid non-symbolic solution that explains the metonymic resonances that permeate the text (bunch of tales about dead people and sneaky murderers set up in parallel? narrator is really dead and killed at least one person!)

We don't all have to agree though and I really do understand why some don't.

--- On Wed, 11/9/11, Lee Berman <severiansola at hotmail.com> wrote:

> From: Lee Berman <severiansola at hotmail.com>
> Subject: (urth) (no subject)
> To: urth at urth.net
> Date: Wednesday, November 9, 2011, 12:32 PM
> 
> 
> 
> >Marc Aramini: Sometimes when Roy posts I feel like
> Michael Douglas in "Falling Down".
> >"When did I become the bad guy?"
> 
> Heh. Good movie! I don't see this in terms of good and
> evil, though. More like a
> predator-prey relationship. Those with an abundance of
> self-confidence will prey
> on those who are more lacking in it. Has been that way
> since the early days of this list.
> 
> 
> >David Stockhoff: I think Jeff spelled out one possible
> explanation, which is that Green
> >is to Urth as Urth is to us. That is, back a cycle or
> two, Urth is our future---one
> >possible future that we will probably not see---and
> back a cycle or two before that,
> >Long/Short Sun is Urth's future---again, one possible
> future that Ushas may not see...
> 
> >It boggles my mind that anyone would want to tell a
> story this way, but Jeff's point is
> >accurate---it excuses the disjointedness.
> 
> I appreciate Jeff's suggestion too though it also boggles
> my mind to comprehend what it
> going on there, not to mention what point Wolfe might have
> been trying to make with that.
> 
> My alternate (to Marc's straight identity idea) explanation
> for "Green is Urth!" and the
> resonance of Green structures to Urth structures has to do
> with spiritual progression.
> 
> Ushas is a spiritually advanced progression from Urth. Blue
> is a more spiritually advanced
> than Green. Antediluvian Earth is more spirtually advanced
> than pre-diluvian Earth which
> was roamed by nephilim and demons and whatever other
> Biblical horrors Noah's Flood washed away.
> 
> Thus "GREEN is Urth!" (I think that is the most accurate
> representation of the quote).
> 
> Green not Blue. Blue is more like Ushas. So much focus is
> on the similar structures found on
> Green and Urth in this discussion. Ignored are the
> similarity of ruins found under the waters of
> both Blue and Ushas. ???
> ????????
> ????

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