On Blue's Waters (Initial thoughts)

David Stockhoff · 13 Jan 2012, 02:46 · from 2012-January.txt.gz

This is the message as the crawl holds it, before anything here touched it. What the conversation shows has been through ingest: transfer encodings decoded, attachments dropped, quote markers repaired, and the archiver’s ? resolved into quotation marks and dashes. Those repairs are judgements and some of them are wrong, which is what this page is for. Email addresses are obscured here as they are everywhere else on the site, so it is before our repairs rather than byte for byte.

From: dstockhoff at verizon.net (David Stockhoff)
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2012 21:46:02 -0500
Subject: (urth) On Blue's Waters (Initial thoughts)
In-Reply-To: <4F0C50B5.50300 at gmail.com>
References: <CAM0v-i6KbPt1Cp=Ea9Sjh_z3w-KAPome+OeuipZrcd2ACzCLJg at mail.gmail.com>
	<CAGB0RZ5jCSkSW2xfrroZnfcbOG9JbfPPx9dfsgnCR2OX=RYHRg at mail.gmail.com>
	<CAM0v-i7a67x3szYVT6hcVrsFczVEiZ_r46X5i7gj+BPgJjfzRw at mail.gmail.com>
	<D1A49E50-95DD-4459-AA03-A6E5437949F3 at gmail.com>
	<1326171153.91761.YahooMailNeo at web114719.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<4F0C50B5.50300 at gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4F0F9AEA.1000903 at verizon.net>

On 1/10/2012 9:52 AM, Ant?nio Pedro Marques wrote:
>
>>> The character on Blue who simply had the order of words in his
>>> sentences changed up clearly didn't have the same amount of work put
>>> into him.
>>>
>>> Arrghhhhh!!!! NO, NO, NO, NO! He's DUTCH! It's a masterly rendering of
>>> Dutch that Wolfe does there! PLEASE, folks, wait a little before you
>>> form your conclusions!
>>
>> Wikipedia says, "Dutch exhibits subject?object?verb word order, but in
>> main clauses the conjugated verb is moved into the second position in
>> what is known as verb second or V2 word order."
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_language#Word_order
>>
>> However, the dialect of Dorp has object-subject-verb order, with the
>> conjugated verb never moved that I've noticed.  "Another Main you got.
>> Maybe a name it's got."  (OBW, Chapter 4.)
>>
>> I looked at /Ik heb altijd gelijk/, a novel by Willem Federik Hermans,
>> which seems to confirm Wikipedia's description.
>>
>> "'Ik ben bedrogen!  Ik heb mij laten belazeren!  Dat is nog het 
>> besten om
>> ervan te zeggen!'"
>>
>> Compare Wijzer's "That I see," "This I hear," "It you must finish," etc.
>> (ibid).
>
> You are right. Dorp's word order is not the same as Dutch. Not only 
> the most usual order isn't the same, Dorp's is quite consistent 
> whereas modern Dutch's is more complex than just SOV/V2. However, to 
> me as someone who's been learning Dutch, Dorp's english evokes just 
> the right feeling of dutchness. 

Sounds to me more like Pennsylvania Dutch. Which is to say some kind of 
German attempt to speak English.

An unofficial mirror of a public mailing list · about & removal requests · download the archive · before the list · original archive at urth.net