Wrangling Over Minutiae

Josh Geller · 05 Jan 2003, 11:13 · from urth-v0301.mbox · original

This is the message as the crawl holds it, before anything here touched it. What the conversation shows has been through ingest: transfer encodings decoded, attachments dropped, quote markers repaired, and the archiver’s ? resolved into quotation marks and dashes. Those repairs are judgements and some of them are wrong, which is what this page is for. Email addresses are obscured here as they are everywhere else on the site, so it is before our repairs rather than byte for byte.

From: Josh Geller <dclxvi at dclxvi.best.vwh.net>
Subject: (urth) Wrangling Over Minutiae
Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 11:13:00 +0000 (GMT)
Message-ID: <urth-v0301-2606 at digest.urth.net>
X-Urthmirror-Source: http://www.urth.net/urth/archives/v0301/2606.txt.shtml
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Sun, 5 Jan 2003, Roy C. Lackey wrote:
> Marc Aramini wrote:

>> Of course Typhon recognizes Severian.  He says, "If you kneel before
>> me, the New Sun will kneel before me when he comes."

> You put that in quotes. As if it came from the text. It doesn't. Severian=
's
> entire meeting with Typhon runs from page 184 to page 197 of SWORD,
> Timescape hardback, 170-182 paper. He said no such thing.

No. As you said, the conversation went like this:

> ... Typhon never mentioned the New Sun. The closest you can come is that
> Sev mentioned him once: "Autarch, what of the New Sun, if at last he come=
s?
> Will you be his enemy too, as you were the enemy of the Conciliator?" Sev
> speaks as if the New Sun and the Conciliator were _not_ the same person.
> Typhon answered: "Swear to me, and believe me, when he comes I shall be h=
is
> master, and he my most abject slave." Then Sev killed him. There was no
> mention of the New Sun during their brief meeting in URTH, either.

Typhon's pretty sharp. He figured it all out, except which head to defend,
and who can really blame him for that?

My reading of this is almost the exact opposite if your reading of it.

Typhon does not know the term 'New Sun'. Why should he? The term has come
into use in the time he has been dead. But as soon as Severian uses it he
knows both that Severian is the New Sun and that Severian does not know
that he is the New Sun.

But he certainly does recognize Severian. Why shouldn't he? This is the
guy who just screwed up his whole operation, in his timeline.

=2E

--=20

An unofficial mirror of a public mailing list · about & removal requests · download the archive · before the list · original archive at urth.net