Wrangling Over Minutiae

Josh Geller04 Dec 2002, 17:56original as archived

↰ answers Michael Andre-Driussi · by quotation

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On Wed, 4 Dec 2002, Michael Andre-Driussi wrote: Professor Jerry wrote:

When I thought about it, I thought that my reasons for not mentioning my Ph. D. were better than my reasons for revealing it, so I probably should have stayed "in the closet".

I strongly disagree: not mentioning it upfront was what made it a back-alley ambush of a housewife by an academician. In the animal kingdom this is predatory camouflage.

This is uncharitable. Simple embarrassment might have prevented Jerry from talking about his Ph.D. .

Dan'l Danehy-Oakes04 Dec 2002, 18:03original as archived

↳ follows Josh Geller · by subject

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Mantis then Josh wrote: I strongly disagree: not mentioning it upfront was what made it a back-alley ambush of a housewife by an academician. In the animal kingdom this is predatory camouflage.

This is uncharitable. Simple embarrassment might have prevented Jerry from talking about his Ph.D.

And simple embarassment might also have caused Mantis to exaggerate the degree of his "ambushment." Actually, I'm more interested in his self-description as a "housewife" ... 8*)

Josh Geller05 Jan 2003, 11:13original as archived

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On Sun, 5 Jan 2003, Roy C. Lackey wrote: Marc Aramini wrote:

Of course Typhon recognizes Severian. He says, "If you kneel before me, the New Sun will kneel before me when he comes."

You put that in quotes. As if it came from the text. It doesn't. Severian's entire meeting with Typhon runs from page 184 to page 197 of SWORD, Timescape hardback, 170-182 paper. He said no such thing.

No. As you said, the conversation went like this:

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... Typhon never mentioned the New Sun. The closest you can come is that Sev mentioned him once: "Autarch, what of the New Sun, if at last he comes? Will you be his enemy too, as you were the enemy of the Conciliator?" Sev speaks as if the New Sun and the Conciliator were not the same person. Typhon answered: "Swear to me, and believe me, when he comes I shall be his master, and he my most abject slave." Then Sev killed him. There was no mention of the New Sun during their brief meeting in URTH, either.

Typhon's pretty sharp. He figured it all out, except which head to defend, and who can really blame him for that? My reading of this is almost the exact opposite if your reading of it. Typhon does not know the term 'New Sun'. Why should he? The term has come into use in the time he has been dead. But as soon as Severian uses it he knows both that Severian is the New Sun and that Severian does not know that he is the New Sun. But he certainly does recognize Severian. Why shouldn't he? This is the guy who just screwed up his whole operation, in his timeline. .

Roy C. Lackey05 Jan 2003, 18:30original as archived

↳ follows Josh Geller · by subject

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Josh Geller wrote: But he certainly does recognize Severian. Why shouldn't he? This is the guy who just screwed up his whole operation, in his timeline.

Screwed it up how? Typhon was already besieged on his mountain when Sev arrived in his timeline. Sev was there for less than a week. The sun had already been wounded, all the space-worthy ships were gone, the peasants were in revolt, and Piaton was dragging his heals about giving up his body, all before Sev came on the scene. Typhon died not too long after Sev disappeared. Typhon's problems were all of his own doing; Sev had nothing to do with any of it. -Roy

Josh Geller05 Jan 2003, 19:56original as archived

↳ follows Roy C. Lackey · by subject

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On Sun, 5 Jan 2003, Roy C. Lackey wrote: Josh Geller wrote:

But he certainly does recognize Severian. Why shouldn't he? This is the guy who just screwed up his whole operation, in his timeline.

Screwed it up how? Typhon was already besieged on his mountain when Sev arrived in his timeline. Sev was there for less than a week. The sun had already been wounded, all the space-worthy ships were gone, the peasants were in revolt, and Piaton was dragging his heals about giving up his body, all before Sev came on the scene. Typhon died not too long after Sev disappeared. Typhon's problems were all of his own doing; Sev had nothing to do with any of it.

I see. .