Digest whorl.v012.n133

Jerry Friedman · 04 Jun 2001, 13:50 · from whorl-v0012.mbox · original

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From: Jerry Friedman <jerry_friedman at yahoo.com>
Subject: (whorl) Re: Digest whorl.v012.n133
Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 13:50:37
Message-ID: <whorl-v0012-0797 at digest.urth.net>
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> From: "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes" <ddanehy at siebel.com>
> Subject: RE: (whorl) Silkhorn^H^H^H^H and Severian
> Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 16:24:31 -0700
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain;=20
>  charset=3Diso-8859-1
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>=20
> Jerry Friedman wrote:
>=20
> > Any comments?
>=20
> Oh, I suppose ... a few ...
>=20
> Given the change in the Narr's astrally-projected
> "appearance,"=20
> I suspect that, yes, there is a change in his or
> their "soul"=20
> somewhere, somehow, in between those two dates. I
> supsect it may=20
> not, however, have anything directly to do with Li'l
> Severian.
>=20
> Actually, I feel like Darwin dealing with Wallace: I
> haven't=20
> formulated a really solid theory, yet, which is why
> I haven't=20
> posted it yet, but given that Jerry is now
> concentrating on=20
> the significant parts of the text (which have
> hitherto been
> mentioned in passing but not really attended to), I
> think I want=20
> to stick my oar in and establish a sort of priority
> on what I=20
> do have.=20
>=20
> The missing piece here is the deScyllification of
> Oreb.=20
>=20
> The connection is fairly clear at a structural
> level:=20
>=20
> 	(A) something happens to free a body (Oreb's) of a=20
> 	    soul or astral persona
> (Scylla-the-daughter-of-Pas)=20
> 	    which has possessed or partially possessed it,
> or,=20
> 	    mutatis mutandis, to free that soul or astral=20
> 	    persona from the body which has possessed it;=20
>=20
> 	(B) something happens to change the soul or astral=20
> 	    persona (Horn's?) associated with a body
> (Silk's)=20
> 	    which seems to be or to have been partially=20
> 	    possessed.=20
>=20
>=20
> But this isn't really developed into any kind of
> thesis or=20
> theory, as you can see; all I'm saying here is "this
> pattern=20
> seems to establish something of the possible
> meaning-space=20
> for case (B) by putting it into relief against case
> (A)."

Nww that you mention it, I can see a parallel between
the two events, but I'm still loooking forward to your
showing any other kind of connection.

> > I promised you folks an unfounded speculation.=20
>=20
> It doesn't look unfounded to me, though I'm not
> readly to agree
> with the conclusions.

It's unfounded in the sense that I don't know of any
positive evidence for it.  There's just an event
without an apparent cause right next to an event
without much apparent effect.  I was hoping someone
would find more definite evidence for (or against) my
speculation.
...

>> Does Severian by his mere presence resurrect Silk?=20


> I find this highly dubious for half a dozen reasons;
> the most important of which: I think Silk is neither
> more nor less dead at the end of _RttW_ than he is
> when the Narr first takes up his pen in Gaon. The
> "climax" of _RttW_ is not a resurrection but a
> recognition, and what is recognized is something
that
> the Narr has been trying very hard not to see since
> long before he began astrally travelling to Green,=20
> let alone Urth.=20

Well, it doesn't seem that settled to me, but let me
rephrase the question in line with Rostrum's point,
which I should have considered in the first place:
Does Severian by his mere presence contribute to
healing Silk?  What's the next-best reason to find it
dubious?

>> There's a strong objection to this speculation: the
>> transformation happens at the wrong time.  We might
have=20
>> expected it at Silkhorn's first meeting with
Severian (Chap.
>> 13), or failing that, when he dreams of Severian
(Chap. 15),
>> or at their last meeting, but not in between.

> Here is one weakness your theory clearly doesn't
> have. On the many occasions when Sev commits
miracles
> without knowing it, he seems to do so in a rather
> haphazard fashion, and not necessarily at the first
> opportunity. (How many encounters does he have with
> water before suddenly turning some into wine...? And
> it isn't as if that had been for a wedding!)

True, but does he ever perform a miracle that takes
effect at some point in the next few days?

--=20
Jerry Friedman




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