Digest urth.v027.n011

Kieran Mullen02 Jun 1999, 11:40original as archived

2 quoted lines · 1–3 deep

On Wed, 26 May 1999 13:29:21, Robert Borski wrote:

For isn't Jonas, a former servitor of the Hierodules, from Yesod? ... This would allow for Jonas/Sidero to have crashed in the future ...<<

In one of the postscripts Wolfe speculates that there is only one ship like Tzad's. I always sorta thought that Jonas and Hethor came from the same crashlanding. However, we don't really know how long Jonas has been on Urth - he could have been there for years before Hethor showed up. It seems unreasonable to think that Tzad's ship crashed on Urth since it is so huge. Surely there would be some notice!

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mantis asks:

... the central mystery seems to me to be: what is so upsetting to Jonas? It seems to be something(s) that the prisoners told him, rather than just an upwelling of empathy for their terrible situation.

I always put this down to delerium. His organic parts are feverish and that's causing problems for him. He seems more delerious than simply panicky. Kieran Mullen

Carlos Martinho02 Jun 1999, 10:03original as archived

↳ follows Kieran Mullen · by subject

13 quoted lines

In one of the postscripts Wolfe speculates that there is only one ship like Tzad's. I always sorta thought that Jonas and Hethor came from the same crashlanding. However, we don't really know how long Jonas has been on Urth - he could have been there for years before Hethor showed up. It seems unreasonable to think that Tzad's ship crashed on Urth since it is so huge. Surely there would be some notice!

It could have been some sort of shuttle, like the one wich brings Severian end Burgundofara back to Urth...

Dan Parmenter02 Jun 1999, 11:52original as archived

↳ follows Carlos Martinho · by subject

6 quoted lines

From: Michael Andre-Driussi <mantis at sirius.com> In the past on this list there have been periodic reference to Blish's book, by three or four people hereabouts. Well I just read it, myself, and I liked it a lot more than the BLACK EASTER books, with which it shares obvious similaries (including, IMHO, a weak ending--but now I'm getting ahead of myself). So I would like people to take this opportunity to chat about COC, compare and contrast with the Urth Cycle. I know that at least a few of you have read it, and most likely many more have, since it is an award winning (Hugo, I believe?) classic.

Things worth noting: spoilers The original novella ends a bit more ambiguously than the novel does I believe. I've always thought that COC should be read along with BOTNS and the C.S. Lewis "space trilogy". Both COC and "the space trilogy" deal with the notion of the consequences (and origins) of a race seemingly without sin. I agree that this should be discussed, but this is not the time for me to do so, since I'm at the office. Lex Shellac

Matthew Malthouse03 Jun 1999, 09:17original as archived

↳ follows Dan Parmenter · by subject

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Kieran Mullen wrote:

On Wed, 26 May 1999 13:29:21, Robert Borski wrote:

For isn't Jonas, a former servitor of the Hierodules, from Yesod? ... This would allow for Jonas/Sidero to have crashed in the future ...<<

In one of the postscripts Wolfe speculates that there is only one ship like Tzad's. I always sorta thought that Jonas and Hethor came from the same crashlanding. However, we don't really know how long Jonas has been on Urth - he could have been there for years before Hethor showed up. It seems unreasonable to think that Tzad's ship crashed on Urth since it is so huge. Surely there would be some notice!

I'd offer two reasonable solutions. First if Jonas sailed Tzad's ship then the vessel in which he crashed might have been some tender or shuttle. Perhaps more likely; Tzad's ship might be the only one that sails a course between the universes but it most certainly isn't the only one in the skys of Urth of which we know. There are those vessels of the heirodules - which may themselves be only tenders of The Ship. There are the ships that once came and went from the Old Port (Citadel). There are the ships that made a human empire in space and the same, or others that brough Typhon back. If one want to go slightly outside the bounds of Urth then there is at least one generation ship from Typhon's era. What is that requires Jonas to have been a sailor on Tzad's ship and no other? Matthew