Lexicon Urthus

On 7/22/05, pthwndxrclzp <aquastor at gmail.com> wrote: If MA-D/Mantis were to grant a public license, and my doing so would be within the constraints of such a license, I would be delighted/honored to digitize the book and make the results available to the list members. Given the passion and commitment of most if not all of us, it seems a first-water tragedy (or vicious crime, take your pick) that the book is essentially unavailable. That said (well, written), and alternatively, should Mr. Mantis be reading or sent a copy of this discussion, I should point out that http://www.lulu.com/ could make printed copies available nearly overnight, at whatever price MA-D deemed suitable (with a good and well-deserved commission on each going directly to him -- I think lulu charges about seven bucks for a perfect-bound copy, so with a price point of, say, $20, I think he'd do okay, and he'd have a bunch of newly-delighted customers). For what it's worth, my $.02 on the subject. Er, two-hundredths of a card. Whatever. -Aquastor

...one could make an argument that online copies would not cannibalize a print-on-demand edition. At least for me, physical text is superior to bits, and worth paying for.

On 7/22/05, James Wynn <thewynns at earthlink.net> wrote:

...one could make an argument that online copies would not cannibalize a print-on-demand edition. At least for me, physical text is superior to bits, and worth paying for.

One could make that argument, but most people will never get around to actually crossing the line and buying a book -- particularly a $30 reference book -- if the same information is available for free...despite their best intentions. It's just human nature. Still, I'm surprised a third-party publisher has not successfully made a paperback offer that was financially worth Mantis' while. I'm very proud of my particular copy, and I only wish more Gene Wolfe fans would visit my house so I could gloat over it. J _______________________________________________

On 7/22/05, James Wynn <thewynns at earthlink.net> wrote:

...one could make an argument that online copies would not cannibalize a print-on-demand edition. At least for me, physical text is superior to bits, and worth paying for.

One could make that argument, but most people will never get around to actually crossing the line and buying a book -- particularly a $30 reference book -- if the same information is available for free...despite their best intentions. It's just human nature. Still, I'm surprised a third-party publisher has not successfully made a paperback offer that was financially worth Mantis' while. I'm very proud of my particular copy, and I only wish more Gene Wolfe fans would visit my house so I could gloat over it. J _______________________________________________

On 7/22/05, David DiGiacomo <david at slack.com> wrote: I had no trouble getting a copy to read via interlibrary loan. It's not as good as owning it, of course. _______________________________________________

On 7/22/05, Maru Dubshinki <marudubshinki at gmail.com> wrote: Alright, I'm done. Here's the rough draft; critique as you will: Dear Mr. Andre-Driussi: On behalf on the Urth.net mailing list [0], I would like to ask you to re-license ''Lexicon Urthus'' with a free-er license; by 'free' I mean free as in speech [1], or the 'free software' sense [2]. I ask because your work is very well-known on the list, as are you, but it is nigh impossible to acquire. People like myself, who were not around during the original printing of "Lexicon Urthus", now find it impossible to acquire a copy. No physical book stores possess any of the run of 1000 books; Sirius Fiction says it is completely out, with no plans for a corrected second printing, or a second edition [3]. Abebooks, Amazon, Ebay etc. all demand a absolute minimum of 100 US$ for a copy, which may not even be in mint condition! Simply put, $ 100 is not doable for the vast majority of Wolfean readers, and a year is a long time. Releasing your work under a permissive license would cost you very little; commercial prospects for "Lexicon Urthus" appear minimal, due to the fact that by its very nature it appeals to a limited and select group, so potential profit is very slim (though there is some demand [5]). Furthermore, if you feel there are opportunities for future editions, you could simply release it under a Creative Commons [6] license reserving commercial use of "Lexicon Urthus" exclusively to yourself, but freely allowing non-profit usage of it [7], or perhaps under another similar license [8]; or possibly even into the public domain [9] (which, however, from our perspective would be ideal. Public domain is the freest licensing scheme, and the simplest to understand and work with). Or you could choose the GNU Free Documentation License [10]. There are strong reasons to believe that a freely available online edition will not cannibalize sales of "Lexicon Urthus"- Firstly, the person who will read more than a smidgen of an online edition is very probably a fan of Gene Wolfe's work, and so would buy an edition for convenience, as reading online fatigues the eyes and is not always possible, if they don't buy just to support critical Wolfe literature or for their collection; Secondly, more likely, viewers will be looking up a few entries. Seeing the quality of the entries, they may well be more motivated to buy, since "Lexicon Urthus" would then not be a book of unknown quality with a deterring price (Cory Doctorow [11] notes on the Wikipedia article on him (a project known for its sucess and its use of a free license [12]) that his books have sold very well, thanks to his licensing practices [13]). Thirdly, all the licenses suggested would allow you to incorporate our work into any future editions for free. Whichever you choose, be it one of those I suggested or a license of your own devising, you need only reply with a refusal, or with a simple statement saying "I hereby release my "Lexicon Urthus" under the X license." And that's it- one of your fans has already volunteered [14] to scan and format it; then the rest of us can set to work improving it, fixing the small errors others have caught [15], etc. What motivation do I have to ask? Simply that "Lexicon Urthus" could be an excellent basis for the long-discussed Urth.net FAQ, since it disposes of just about every vocabulary related question, is a primary source document for many of the most popular theories, and is comprehensive. Thank you for your time. I hope you will consider my suggestions seriously. ~Maru Dubshinki [0] http://www.urth.net/ [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_software [3] http://www.siriusfiction.com/#lexicon [4] http://lists.urth.net/htdig.cgi/urth-urth.net/2004-December/000159.html

On 7/22/05, pthwndxrclzp <aquastor at gmail.com> wrote: Wait, now I'm confused. I thought the previous email noted that one can get a spiral-bound copy for about twenty-five bucks plus shipping. Isn't that sufficient for most any need for the present? I'd hate Mantis to feel like we were pushing him, given that the text is apparently readily available (assuming you don't inherently loathe spiral-bindings).... On 7/22/05, Maru Dubshinki <marudubshinki at gmail.com> wrote:

Alright, I'm done. Here's the rough draft; critique as you will: Dear Mr. Andre-Driussi: On behalf on the Urth.net mailing list [0], I would like to ask you to re-license ''Lexicon Urthus'' with a free-er license; by 'free' I mean free as in speech [1], or the 'free software' sense [2]. I ask because your work is very well-known on the list, as are you, but it is nigh impossible to acquire. People like myself, who were not around during the original printing of "Lexicon Urthus", now find it impossible to acquire a copy. No physical book stores possess any of the run of 1000 books; Sirius Fiction says it is completely out, with no plans for a corrected second printing, or a second edition [3]. Abebooks, Amazon, Ebay etc. all demand a absolute minimum of 100 US$ for a copy, which may not even be in mint condition! Simply put, $ 100 is not doable for the vast majority of Wolfean readers, and a year is a long time. Releasing your work under a permissive license would cost you very little; commercial prospects for "Lexicon Urthus" appear minimal, due to the fact that by its very nature it appeals to a limited and select group, so potential profit is very slim (though there is some demand [5]). Furthermore, if you feel there are opportunities for future editions, you could simply release it under a Creative Commons [6] license reserving commercial use of "Lexicon Urthus" exclusively to yourself, but freely allowing non-profit usage of it [7], or perhaps under another similar license [8]; or possibly even into the public domain [9] (which, however, from our perspective would be ideal. Public domain is the freest licensing scheme, and the simplest to understand and work with). Or you could choose the GNU Free Documentation License [10]. There are strong reasons to believe that a freely available online edition will not cannibalize sales of "Lexicon Urthus"- Firstly, the person who will read more than a smidgen of an online edition is very probably a fan of Gene Wolfe's work, and so would buy an edition for convenience, as reading online fatigues the eyes and is not always possible, if they don't buy just to support critical Wolfe literature or for their collection; Secondly, more likely, viewers will be looking up a few entries. Seeing the quality of the entries, they may well be more motivated to buy, since "Lexicon Urthus" would then not be a book of unknown quality with a deterring price (Cory Doctorow [11] notes on the Wikipedia article on him (a project known for its sucess and its use of a free license [12]) that his books have sold very well, thanks to his licensing practices [13]). Thirdly, all the licenses suggested would allow you to incorporate our work into any future editions for free. Whichever you choose, be it one of those I suggested or a license of your own devising, you need only reply with a refusal, or with a simple statement saying "I hereby release my "Lexicon Urthus" under the X license." And that's it- one of your fans has already volunteered [14] to scan and format it; then the rest of us can set to work improving it, fixing the small errors others have caught [15], etc. What motivation do I have to ask? Simply that "Lexicon Urthus" could be an excellent basis for the long-discussed Urth.net FAQ, since it disposes of just about every vocabulary related question, is a primary source document for many of the most popular theories, and is comprehensive. Thank you for your time. I hope you will consider my suggestions seriously. ~Maru Dubshinki [0] http://www.urth.net/ [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_software [3] http://www.siriusfiction.com/#lexicon [4] http://lists.urth.net/htdig.cgi/urth-urth.net/2004-December/000159.html

On 7/22/05, Dan'l Danehy-Oakes <danldo at gmail.com> wrote: I agree. If it's available POD (even spiralbound), and is being revised, then I say leave it at that. There is no need to ask for a GNU-type license.