Severian's Phraseology...

Ryan Dunn04 Dec 2010, 04:42as archived

Anyone else wonder why Severian as Autarch consistently refers to the collective "we" when talking to others? "Our memories never fade." "We are going to keep this." etc. And yet, Severian the Narrator, never does this. Anyone else find this peculiar? ...ryan

Son of Witz04 Dec 2010, 05:19as archived

↳ in reply to Ryan Dunn

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On Dec 3, 2010, at 8:42 PM, Ryan Dunn <ryan at liftingfaces.com> wrote: Anyone else wonder why Severian as Autarch consistently refers to the collective "we" when talking to others? "Our memories never fade." "We are going to keep this." etc. And yet, Severian the Narrator, never does this. Anyone else find this peculiar? ...ryan _______________________________________________

Jeff Wilson04 Dec 2010, 05:39as archived

↳ in reply to Ryan Dunn

12 quoted lines

On 12/3/2010 10:42 PM, Ryan Dunn wrote: Anyone else wonder why Severian as Autarch consistently refers to the collective "we" when talking to others? "Our memories never fade." "We are going to keep this." etc. And yet, Severian the Narrator, never does this. Anyone else find this peculiar?

As you know, Bob, it was somewhat customary for western sovereigns to do this, "we" including the notional persons of the state, the crown, the royal consort in unity, etc. and "I" the natural person who happens to hold the above positions, speaking in some lesser capacity. The Autarchy takes this about as far as literally possible, the Autarch being the minds of hundreds of actual people hosted by the humble Commonwealther who was called to that office. It is also a clever bit of misdirection, since "I" occasionally becomes Thecla the Narrator without either of them noticing.

Jeff Wilson - jwilson at io.com Computational Intelligence Laboratory - Texas A&M Texarkana < http://www.tamut.edu/CIL >

Ryan Dunn04 Dec 2010, 06:04as archived

↳ in reply to Jeff Wilson

No, he speaks with the collective voice before he is Autarch, after consuming Thecla, to my knowledge. No? I think the peculiarity is how objective Severian the Narrator is about his own condition. He is writing all of this as Autarch, with all the memories in his brain. He is able to sort them and explain their differences within his mind this way, yet in conversation he almost explicitly speaks in what I guess you would call first-person plural. ...ryan

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On Dec 4, 2010, at 12:39 AM, Jeff Wilson wrote: On 12/3/2010 10:42 PM, Ryan Dunn wrote:

Anyone else wonder why Severian as Autarch consistently refers to the collective "we" when talking to others? "Our memories never fade." "We are going to keep this." etc. And yet, Severian the Narrator, never does this. Anyone else find this peculiar?

As you know, Bob, it was somewhat customary for western sovereigns to do this, "we" including the notional persons of the state, the crown, the royal consort in unity, etc. and "I" the natural person who happens to hold the above positions, speaking in some lesser capacity. The Autarchy takes this about as far as literally possible, the Autarch being the minds of hundreds of actual people hosted by the humble Commonwealther who was called to that office. It is also a clever bit of misdirection, since "I" occasionally becomes Thecla the Narrator without either of them noticing. -- Jeff Wilson - jwilson at io.com Computational Intelligence Laboratory - Texas A&M Texarkana < http://www.tamut.edu/CIL > _______________________________________________

Jeff Wilson04 Dec 2010, 07:08as archived

↳ in reply to Ryan Dunn

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On 12/4/2010 12:04 AM, Ryan Dunn wrote: No, he speaks with the collective voice before he is Autarch, after consuming Thecla, to my knowledge. No?

The analeptic makes it more actual rather than notional to be multiple people, though there is an identifiable point where she begins to be less of a separate person and more integrated.

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I think the peculiarity is how objective Severian the Narrator is about his own condition. He is writing all of this as Autarch, with all the memories in his brain. He is able to sort them and explain their differences within his mind this way, yet in conversation he almost explicitly speaks in what I guess you would call first-person plural.

The books are written after he's had ten years to fully integrate the minds...but there are still a couple of places in the ms where he begins writing things from Thecla's POV without a formal transition, like when they recall childhood and mentions her father's cavalry.

Jeff Wilson - jwilson at io.com Computational Intelligence Laboratory - Texas A&M Texarkana < http://www.tamut.edu/CIL >