whorl in orbit

Against the "Whorl has been in orbit for thirty years" possibly in the text and possibly said by Wolfe in an interview I lay down my "longfather, culture hero of Ushas who left for the stars" entry in Lexicon Urthus p.184 - 185. And I would argue most vehemently that nothing is straightforward enough in these texts to draw any definitive conclusions. Heck, for all I know, this is some elaborate joke by Wolfe, and the real narrator of the whole 12 book series is L. Ron Hubbard. Don

In order for the inhumi to have come aboard before the Silk is enlightened -- and I don't think you can question that Quetzal was on board before Silk was enlightened -- then the Whorl has to have been in orbit around the Short Sun at necessarily sub-light speeds. I simply don't think there's any way around that conclusion.

Don, if this is true, then what's the point? If you can dismiss any piece of evidence that doesn't fit in with your theory by just saying, "Well, obviously the narrator is wrong." then you can twist the narrative into any shape you like. I don't see the joy in that, because then you're not working at interpreting the text, you're simply imposing your will on it. I certainly don't believe that the narrator is infallible, but I do believe that you have to take what he says at face value until something forces you to do otherwise. But that's just me. Charles

Okay, I don't have a copy of the Lex, so I don't know what it says there ... but ... "longfather" is simply an antique word for a male ancestor distant enough that you can't (or don't want to bother) counting out the "greats" -- typically one who plays a patronymic or patriarchal role in the family history; Abraham would be "longfather" to the Jews. (Note that this does not exclude the concept of "culture hero," but does not require it.) The only modern use of the word I know outside of Wolfe is -- who's surprised? -- Tolkien, who refers somewhere to the "longfathers of the Dwarves."

Oh, great, now you've gone and spoilt it all ... trying to lay engrams on us, eh? --Dan'l