a question, some Cthulhiana, and some EG spoilers (maybe)

Thomas Bitterman13 Oct 2008, 02:37as archived

First, the question. In the final conversation, between Cassie and Klauser (which really needs extended explanation), Cassie asks Klauser what to take on the trip to Woldercan. He says, "Women have monthly needs. You could use rags, and our great-great-grandmothers did, but if you would prefer not to...". WTF? Who talks like that? Why would an old man tell an old woman about menstruation and the historic ways to deal with it? Now, Cthulhuiana and spoilers (if I'm lucky). The two major male protagonists have multiple identities (Wallace Rosenquist/William Reis and Gideon Chase/Gil Corby) but the names keep the same initials. If someone can have two identities, they can have more. Since it's a Lovecraftian book, let's look there. The first one is easy. Gideon Chase is the Great Cthulhu. The second one is tougher. I can't be sure, but I'll go in order of descending likelihood. I would like to thank my copy of Encyclopedia Cthulhiana, which comes in handy more often than you'd think. 1. "Black Ram with a Thousand Young". The male aspect of the Outer God Shub-Niggurath. My favorite for plot purposes. 2. "Wza-y'ei Rhan-Tegoth" The first word is the start of the chant that summons Rhan-Tegoth, a Great Old One who came to Earth. It is said that the destruction of Rhan-Tegoth would prevent the awakening of the Great Old Ones. 3. "Watery R'lyeh". Cthulhu's underwater city. 4. "Beyond Rigel". Rigel is a star that is associated with the Elder Gods, enemies (more or less) of the Great Old Ones. I like 1 best because it turns the whole story into infighting between the bad guys with Shub-Niggurath getting the U. S. Navy to nuke Cthulhu. Cassie is just a pawn in this game and is going to get her just "reward" on Woldercan from the Great C himself. Enamel

Adam Thornton13 Oct 2008, 02:55as archived

↳ in reply to Thomas Bitterman

2 quoted lines

On Oct 12, 2008, at 9:37 PM, Thomas Bitterman wrote: First, the question. In the final conversation, between Cassie and Klauser (which really needs extended explanation), Cassie asks Klauser what to take on the trip to Woldercan. He says, "Women have monthly needs. You could use rags, and our great-great-grandmothers did, but if you would prefer not to...". WTF? Who talks like that? Why would an old man tell an old woman about menstruation and the historic ways to deal with it?

For some reason, this reminded me of the conversation between Marlowe and Sternwood in The Big Sleep. You know, "Orchids remind me too much of dead men's flesh." Also, of course, "I exist largely on sleep, like a newborn spider." I don't know why the conversation triggered that memory, but when reading Wolfe, often my hunches turn out to be at least sort of right. I think there's something to that, and something, perhaps, to the fact that the novel smells like pulp but might be noir. As far as Gideon Chase being Great Cthulhu: the dude seems much more like Nyarlathotep to me. But...well, the Haunter In Darkness is the only one of that crowd with much actual interest in humanity (admittedly, the interest of a cat with a mouse). But I wonder if Bill Reis, and the Shark God, and the Volcano God, are mere Gods of Earth, while Gideon Chase and the Squid God are something much larger. Of course, if Gideon is driven off-world by the efforts of the U.S. Navy....hmm. Adam

Duncan Truter13 Oct 2008, 03:20as archived

↳ follows Adam Thornton · by subject

Just a quick note here. if GC is one of the elder gods, the only one it makes sense for him to be is Nyarlathotep. Cthulhu is only awake for brief periods, and never takes other forms as far as I know. Also, I wonder if this is a mythos book or a lovecraft-cthulhu book. if it's a lovecraft-cthulhu book then the elder gods aren't involved. Has Wolfe given any interviews recently? Duncan

29 quoted lines · 1–2 deep

Message: 6 Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2008 21:55:00 -0500 From: Adam Thornton <adam at io.com> Subject: Re: (urth) a question, some Cthulhiana, and some EG spoilers (maybe) To: The Urth Mailing List <urth at lists.urth.net> Message-ID: <FA4CD2E0-3BF6-4792-8012-EC67CCD8B543 at io.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed"; DelSp="yes" On Oct 12, 2008, at 9:37 PM, Thomas Bitterman wrote:

First, the question. In the final conversation, between Cassie and Klauser (which really needs extended explanation), Cassie asks Klauser what to take on the trip to Woldercan. He says, "Women have monthly needs. You could use rags, and our great-great-grandmothers did, but if you would prefer not to...". WTF? Who talks like that? Why would an old man tell an old woman about menstruation and the historic ways to deal with it?

For some reason, this reminded me of the conversation between Marlowe and Sternwood in The Big Sleep. You know, "Orchids remind me too much of dead men's flesh." Also, of course, "I exist largely on sleep, like a newborn spider." I don't know why the conversation triggered that memory, but when reading Wolfe, often my hunches turn out to be at least sort of right. I think there's something to that, and something, perhaps, to the fact that the novel smells like pulp but might be noir. As far as Gideon Chase being Great Cthulhu: the dude seems much more like Nyarlathotep to me. But...well, the Haunter In Darkness is the only one of that crowd with much actual interest in humanity (admittedly, the interest of a cat with a mouse). But I wonder if Bill Reis, and the Shark God, and the Volcano God, are mere Gods of Earth, while Gideon Chase and the Squid God are something much larger. Of course, if Gideon is driven off-world by the efforts of the U.S. Navy....hmm. Adam -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 4988 bytes Desc: not available URL: <http://lists.urth.net/pipermail/urth-urth.net/attachments/20081012/0515597c/attachment.bin> ------------------------------ _______________________________________________

Greg Bates13 Oct 2008, 23:38as archived

↳ in reply to Thomas Bitterman

Gideon Chase's father is Robert Chase (I believe.) RC = Randolph Carter?

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On Sun, Oct 12, 2008 at 10:37 PM, Thomas Bitterman <tom at bitterman.net>wrote: First, the question. In the final conversation, between Cassie and Klauser (which really needs extended explanation), Cassie asks Klauser what to take on the trip to Woldercan. He says, "Women have monthly needs. You could use rags, and our great-great-grandmothers did, but if you would prefer not to...". WTF? Who talks like that? Why would an old man tell an old woman about menstruation and the historic ways to deal with it? Now, Cthulhuiana and spoilers (if I'm lucky). The two major male protagonists have multiple identities (Wallace Rosenquist/William Reis and Gideon Chase/Gil Corby) but the names keep the same initials. If someone can have two identities, they can have more. Since it's a Lovecraftian book, let's look there. The first one is easy. Gideon Chase is the Great Cthulhu. The second one is tougher. I can't be sure, but I'll go in order of descending likelihood. I would like to thank my copy of Encyclopedia Cthulhiana, which comes in handy more often than you'd think. 1. "Black Ram with a Thousand Young". The male aspect of the Outer God Shub-Niggurath. My favorite for plot purposes. 2. "Wza-y'ei Rhan-Tegoth" The first word is the start of the chant that summons Rhan-Tegoth, a Great Old One who came to Earth. It is said that the destruction of Rhan-Tegoth would prevent the awakening of the Great Old Ones. 3. "Watery R'lyeh". Cthulhu's underwater city. 4. "Beyond Rigel". Rigel is a star that is associated with the Elder Gods, enemies (more or less) of the Great Old Ones. I like 1 best because it turns the whole story into infighting between the bad guys with Shub-Niggurath getting the U. S. Navy to nuke Cthulhu. Cassie is just a pawn in this game and is going to get her just "reward" on Woldercan from the Great C himself. Enamel _______________________________________________

Adam Thornton14 Oct 2008, 03:34as archived

↳ in reply to Greg Bates

2 quoted lines

On Oct 13, 2008, at 6:38 PM, Greg Bates wrote: Gideon Chase's father is Robert Chase (I believe.) RC = Randolph Carter?

That certainly gives the watch another dimension, doesn't it? Adam

Dave Tallman15 Oct 2008, 14:53as archived

↳ follows Adam Thornton · by subject

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On Oct 13, 2008, at 6:38 PM, Greg Bates wrote:

* Gideon Chase's father is Robert Chase (I believe.) RC = Randolph > Carter?

* That certainly gives the watch another dimension, doesn't it?

Randolph Carter and "The Dream Quest of the Unknown Kadath" are heavily referenced in Wolfe's story "Game in the Pope's Head" in "Starwater Strains." Carter seems to be an alias given to Jack the Ripper in that story, though interpretations may vary.