OT: Vance Autobiography

I remember there was some discussion a while back of Jack Vance's autobiography. Apparently Subterranean Press is publishing it in 2009. I'm guessing I won't be the only member of the Urth list to order a copy. No word yet as to whether or not this is a Subterranean exclusive, but I wouldn't be surprised if it were: I doubt there's a huge market for it. http://subterraneanpress.com/index.php/2008/12/14/new-robert-block-and-jack-vance-titles-just-acquired/ -Matt

Speaking of Vance, who else has written "dying earth" stories? I know we like to call it a subgenre, but how widespread is it, really? The only other example I can think of offhand is Michael Shea's "sequels" to Vance's series. ----- Original Message ---- From: Matthew Keeley <matthew.keeley.1 at gmail.com> To: The Urth Mailing List <urth at lists.urth.net> Sent: Monday, December 15, 2008 9:06:19 AM Subject: (urth) OT: Vance Autobiography I remember there was some discussion a while back of Jack Vance's autobiography. Apparently Subterranean Press is publishing it in 2009. I'm guessing I won't be the only member of the Urth list to order a copy. No word yet as to whether or not this is a Subterranean exclusive, but I wouldn't be surprised if it were: I doubt there's a huge market for it. http://subterraneanpress.com/index.php/2008/12/14/new-robert-block-and-jack-vance-titles-just-acquired/ -Matt

Clark Ashton Smith? Those are more, uh, prequels, of course. Adam

William Hope Hodgson's The Night Land? And of course there is that upcoming Vance tribute anthology, Songs of the Dying Earth. -Matt

Aside from the aforementioned Smith and Hodgson: H.G. Wells, The Time Machine John Campbell, "Twilight" Brian Aldiss, Hothouse (aka The Long Afternoon of Earth) Richard Lupoff, One Million Centuries Arthur C. Clarke, "Against the Fall of Night" M. John Harrison, The Pastel City (and other Viriconium books) Michael Moorcock, An Alien Heat (and the rest of the series) Olaf Stapledon, Last and First Men There a lot of differences among these books and stories, but all involve far-future decline.

Ah, thanks! This is great. Can't believe I forgot about Virconium... ----- Original Message ---- From: Tim Walters <walters at doubtfulpalace.com> To: The Urth Mailing List <urth at lists.urth.net> Sent: Monday, December 15, 2008 11:17:08 AM Subject: Re: (urth) OT: Vance Autobiography

Aside from the aforementioned Smith and Hodgson: H.G. Wells, The Time Machine John Campbell, "Twilight" Brian Aldiss, Hothouse (aka The Long Afternoon of Earth) Richard Lupoff, One Million Centuries Arthur C. Clarke, "Against the Fall of Night" M. John Harrison, The Pastel City (and other Viriconium books) Michael Moorcock, An Alien Heat (and the rest of the series) Olaf Stapledon, Last and First Men There a lot of differences among these books and stories, but all involve far-future decline.

So I've never read any Vance. I see that The Dying Earth is influential to Wolfe. Worth reading? I saw a Dying Earth compendium, is that worth bothering with? ~witz

Yes. Adam

Matthew Keeley writes:

And some humble ornaments thereto http://www.thenightland.co.uk - hartshorn

Yes, very much so. The Eyes Of The Overworld, set in the same milieu, is also excellent.

Actually, Witz, given your reaction to Wolfe and PKD, I wonder what Vance will have to offer you. Vance's artistry seems to operate almost entirely at the level of style. Have you read A Voyage to Arcturus or C.S. Lewis's Space Trilogy? I don't exactly recommend them, but I do think you might find them interesting.

I, ah, agree with this. I read The Dying Earth entirely because of Wolfe and this list, and I found it not to be too my taste.

Thanks for the comments on Vance. I'm okay with style stuff, and more standard genre works. (I LOVES me some Conan) It's just probably not the sort of stuff that inspires me to get online and try to hash out what the hell is going on with some other readers. I suppose there is a lot more I should read first. thanks, ~witz

For that, I would recommend John Crowley, especially Engine Summer and Little, Big.

I will second that, on both counts. And add The Deep and Beasts, as well.

Very different, but if you like "mystery" sf/fantasy, at least in the sense of starting without a clue and slowly having to puzzle your way toward figuring out what's going on, Steven Ericson's "Malazan Book of the Fallen" series is a fun read. It's a very different kind of read from Wolfe. But if you find yourself at all attracted to the the Robert Jordan/George R. R. Martin 10 book epics, this is the best of the bunch, imo. It has its problems, but I also find that it has its fair bit of puzzling that increases the fun. ----- Original Message ---- From: David Stockhoff <dstockhoff at verizon.net> To: urth at lists.urth.net Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 5:34:02 PM Subject: Re: (urth) OT: Vance Autobiography I will second that, on both counts. And add The Deep and Beasts, as well.

I never could get into Erikson's stuff, and I picked it up because it had a blurb from Stephen Donaldson on the cover, and I like Donaldson's work. Erikson's characterization wasn't as sharp as Martin's, his prose nowhere near as solid as Jordan's, and he lacked Martin's ability to work in different narrative voices to the same story. I felt it was a shame, because it seemed like the rarest of all birds, good epic fantasy (in terms of what he wanted to do with the series, which from reading websites, Wikipedia, etc., and talking to my friends, seems rather awesome). I hate to sound like one of those guys who always says that the oldies are the best, but for that kind of fantasy, I find Glen Cook to be an undisputed master. And what luck! You can get his "Black Company" novels in anthology format now. I have both "The Chronicles of the Black Company" and "The Books of the South" on my bookshelf right now and they're both excellent. For modern authors of epic fantasy that have thrilled me, Patrick Rothfuss' "The Name of the Wind" was a good exercise in frame stories, extraordinarily well written and very easy to get into. Scott Lynch's Locke Lamora books remind me a lot of one of my absolute favorite authors, Fritz Leiber. And finally, Joshua Palmatier's "Throne of Amenkor" series is refreshingly original and a blast to read. Lane

I entirely agree. For style, Erikson is NOT your man. (And that made me seriously hesitate mentioning him on this list.) And, like you said, his characterization is inconsistent, which is a real problem in books with upwards of 200 characters sometimes. Still, the fun there is the world building/history/politics. The problem is that he forgot to populate it with interesting people. So I read it like fake history (Silmarillion-style), and I can overlook the shortcomings. (Although I think that even Silmarillion had its stylistic charms.) And I've heard only good things about Rothfuss, too. But I always have a problem starting a series before it's finished. You never know if the author is going to die before finishing it (e.g., Robert Jordan).

John Clute's Appleseed is great for that vertiginous total-immersion feeling. (Add me to the list of readers who needed a few shies before leaping the hurdle of Gravity's Rainbow. Loved it by the end, though.)

I read and enjoyed it a long time ago (before reading much Wolfe), and also his "Demon Prince" series, which I liked for style and culture-building. From this list, I started reading some Stephenson. I loved "The Diamond Age" and "Anathem" -- both have strong techno-nerd plots that lead into esoteric mysteries by the end. He also has a weird sense of humor that sometimes works for me and sometimes not. I tried to start "Snow Crash" but found it too absurd. A protagonist named Protagonist? No way.

Just remembered another Dying Earth entry: the excellent, strange, and relatively obscure Earthchild by Doris Piserchia.

I just remembered C.J. Cherryh's Sunfall. Adam

that's HIRO Protagonist, to you! (At least the Japanese name is plausible.) Snow Crash is much like those movies, especially action comedies it seems, that are truly great for the first half and then fall into cliched resolutions. It was also sloppily executed in many ways. But Stephenson's dark laissez faire world is effective.

Anybody know why Gene W. is not among the authors in Songs of the Dying Earth? Seems to me that's a place he'd really like to be included. Patera Nutria James B. Jordan Director, Biblical Horizons Box 1096 Niceville, FL 32588 http://www.biblicalhorizons.com

Same reason he hasn't won a Hugo. .

I gather he was asked to contribute, but declined? I think George R.R. Martin said something to that effect in the comments section on his blog. Odd - Wolfe has done so many pastiches and homages in the past. He even did a story with Robert E. Howard's Kull (Six From Atlantis) a few years back. (For the curious, it wasn't one of Wofle's best, it was very short, and the anthology is out-of-print - http://www.revolutionsf.com/article.php?id=3363) -Matt

I don't think it's that odd. The man is what, 77 years old now? We know he has more than one project in progress in his own voice, so I expect he's just husbanding his available time. James

Pray, tell!

I don't know why, personally. It is a mystery. .

Hasn't written a best-seller?

This is a requirement? .

I received a letter from Mr. Wolfe recently, and he expressed that his schedule was full. He also sent me a nifty copy of Strange Birds signed and personalized as a 'thank you' for reading his work. He is a very cool person. Aaron Singleton

Well, pretty much. Hugos are voted on by fandom (specifically, Worldcon members). Which does mean that a) a lot of people had to have read it, and b) a lot of people had to have liked it. If I were being really snotty I'd say something about Wolfe's work clearly being too erudite for the mass of red-Lycra-wearing mouth- breathing Star Trek Reenactors, or something like that, but I'm not. Hell, I've gone to cons and enjoyed myself too. I'll just say that winning a Hugo does require a mass appeal that, perhaps, Wolfe lacks. Has he won a Nebula? Why, yes. The Nebula, on the other hand, is voted on by SFWA members. Adam

Surprisingly few Worldcon members actually vote. "Memorare" lost 182-146-124 on the first round (due to the Hugo's instant-runoff rules, it came in fourth rather than third). Also consider that the nominees were available for free in electronic editions to Worldcon members, and that it's generally considered poor form to vote without reading them. Some years the good guys mostly win--in 2008, the Wolfe loss was the only one I disagreed with. Some years, gag me with a spoon. There's a lot of luck involved. Wolfe just hasn't gotten the break he needs yet.

Tim Walters wrote: [stuff about the Hugos] I should add that anyone who wants can join as a non-attending member for a relatively low fee, and vote. (Please read all the nominees and vote based on those stories, not past glories!)

So ... does it mean anything that Wolfe doesn't have a story in any of the 2008 Year's Best Fantasy or Science Fiction volumes? Did he just not publish any good stories this year? Or does this reflect some shift in the perception of what's best out there? Is there a story that the editors overlooked that should have been included in a Year's Best? John **************One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail, Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000025)

"Hiro Protagonist" is self-referential pseudonym that is also his brand name, and is part of his strategy to minimize identify theft.

To follow up with "Against the Fall of Night", I'd also look to Clarke's "revision" (re-imagining?), "The City and the Stars". Also, in a similar vein, his novelette "The Lion of Commarre". How about "Childhood's End"? Or the novelized/expanded "Songs of Distant Earth"? For Stapledon: "Last Men in London" is a book that takes place within the timeline of "First and Last Men". And "Starmaker", encompassing a lifecycle of a universe, might be worth looking at. F.P. Kiesche III "Ah Mr. Gibbon, another damned, fat, square book. Always, scribble, scribble, scribble, eh?" (The Duke of Gloucester, on being presented with Volume 2 of The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire.) Blogging at The Lensman's Children and TexasBestGrok! --- On Mon, 12/15/08, Tim Walters <walters at doubtfulpalace.com> wrote: From: Tim Walters <walters at doubtfulpalace.com> Subject: Re: (urth) OT: Vance Autobiography To: "The Urth Mailing List" <urth at lists.urth.net> Date: Monday, December 15, 2008, 12:17 PM

stories? Aside from the aforementioned Smith and Hodgson: H.G. Wells, The Time Machine John Campbell, "Twilight" Brian Aldiss, Hothouse (aka The Long Afternoon of Earth) Richard Lupoff, One Million Centuries Arthur C. Clarke, "Against the Fall of Night" M. John Harrison, The Pastel City (and other Viriconium books) Michael Moorcock, An Alien Heat (and the rest of the series) Olaf Stapledon, Last and First Men There a lot of differences among these books and stories, but all involve far-future decline.