??????????-\\~S~//- ? Mobile — (415) 786-3624
???? Skype? stuart.hamm
myspace.com/stuhamm
? ??? stuarthamm.net
--- On Wed, 5/20/09, Stuart Hamm <hammstu at sbcglobal.net> wrote: From: Stuart Hamm <hammstu at sbcglobal.net> Subject: Re: (urth) (no subject) To: "Jeff Wilson" <jwilson at io.com> Date: Wednesday, May 20, 2009, 2:33 PM
I'm not sure I ever had credibility...certainly? not on this forum...but
The actors and producers and people who work on a TV show are payed up front for their work...maybe some back end $ for DVD sales...but are not payed? based on how many people actually watch the show!!
When someone buys a CD at a store or online a % of that sale goes to the writer/musicians...that's the way we make money off the product. If it's shared or downloaded illegaly I lose the opportunity to make $ off my work.
Sure, if I download an episode of BSG Ron Moore may lose a few $...(but I'll buy the box set anyway..) but the lion's share of his earning have been payed already,,,regardless of whether 1 million or 25 million people watched that episode.
No one's gonna back me? Don't we all rush out and buy a first edition of GW's new books instead of
downloading an illegal copy???
??????????-\\~S~//- ? Mobile — (415) 786-3624
???? Skype? stuart.hamm
myspace.com/stuhamm
? ??? stuarthamm.net
--- On Wed, 5/20/09, Jeff Wilson <jwilson at io.com> wrote:
From: Jeff Wilson <jwilson at io.com>
Subject: Re: (urth) (no subject)
No, I certainly back you. I'll admit to having downloaded some music, but all of it is rare imported stuff I can't find elsewhere.
One of my favorite bands, NoMeansNo is moving out of the CD pressing business all together and looking at a Vinyl, MP3 distribution model from now on. This will, in the long run, be great for artists, I think.
But yeah, Stuart, your description of the difference between Film/TV product and music piracy is well placed.
34 quoted lines
On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 2:34 PM, Stuart Hamm <hammstu at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
-\\~S~//-
Mobile (415) 786-3624
Skype stuart.hamm
myspace.com/stuhamm
stuarthamm.net
--- On Wed, 5/20/09, Stuart Hamm <hammstu at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
From: Stuart Hamm <hammstu at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: (urth) (no subject)
To: "Jeff Wilson" <jwilson at io.com>
Date: Wednesday, May 20, 2009, 2:33 PM
I'm not sure I ever had credibility...certainly not on this forum...but
The actors and producers and people who work on a TV show are payed up
front for their work...maybe some back end $ for DVD sales...but are not payed based on how many people actually watch the show!! When someone buys a CD at a store or online a % of that sale goes to the writer/musicians...that's the way we make money off the product. If it's shared or downloaded illegaly I lose the opportunity to make $ off my work. Sure, if I download an episode of BSG Ron Moore may lose a few $...(but I'll buy the box set anyway..) but the lion's share of his earning have been payed already,,,regardless of whether 1 million or 25 million people watched that episode.
No one's gonna back me? Don't we all rush out and buy a first edition of GW's new books instead of downloading an illegal copy???
-\\~S~//-
Mobile (415) 786-3624
Skype stuart.hamm
myspace.com/stuhamm
stuarthamm.net
--- On Wed, 5/20/09, Jeff Wilson <jwilson at io.com> wrote:
From: Jeff Wilson <jwilson at io.com>
Subject: Re: (urth) (no subject)
On May 20, 2009, at 4:34 PM, Stuart Hamm wrote:
No one's gonna back me? Don't we all rush out and buy a first edition of GW's new books instead of downloading an illegal copy???
Yeah.
My own position is that downloading media illegally is some-kind-of- bad (me, I still prefer to buy physical CDs and then rip them to iTunes, so that I have unprotected files which I can then copy to whatever music player I may have in the future that might not be an iPod), but it's not exactly theft. Copyright infringement is not, in my mind, the same crime as, say, stealing your TV.
I do not, however, think there's a one-to-one correspondence between lost sales and illegal downloads. That is, plenty of people download things that they're idly curious about, but nowhere near enough interested in to buy. Now, one can, quite correctly, make the point that they SHOULDN'T OUGHTA BE USING IT then. Fair enough.
But mainly I was just bringing it up as a counterpoint to Brunians' absolutist Property Rights statement, by pointing out that there are some things which some people consider legitimate property rights, and others do not.
Adam
I think it is wrong. I just don't think that it is in any way similar to burglary, extortion, muggery, barratry etc etc.
I have thought for a while that y'all are going to have to figure out another paradigm as to how you extract your money from the market.
You know, Mozart only got paid for the shows that he personally put on. When other people produced his stuff in other cities, he got bupkis.
.
22 quoted lines
??????????-\\~S~//- ? Mobile — (415) 786-3624
???? Skype? stuart.hamm
myspace.com/stuhamm
? ??? stuarthamm.net
--- On Wed, 5/20/09, Stuart Hamm <hammstu at sbcglobal.net> wrote: From: Stuart Hamm <hammstu at sbcglobal.net> Subject: Re: (urth) (no subject) To: "Jeff Wilson" <jwilson at io.com> Date: Wednesday, May 20, 2009, 2:33 PM
I'm not sure I ever had credibility...certainly? not on this forum...but
The actors and producers and people who work on a TV show are payed up front for their work...maybe some back end $ for DVD sales...but are not payed? based on how many people actually watch the show!! When someone buys a CD at a store or online a % of that sale goes to the writer/musicians...that's the way we make money off the product. If it's shared or downloaded illegaly I lose the opportunity to make $ off my work. Sure, if I download an episode of BSG Ron Moore may lose a few $...(but I'll buy the box set anyway..) but the lion's share of his earning have been payed already,,,regardless of whether 1 million or 25 million people watched that episode.
No one's gonna back me? Don't we all rush out and buy a first edition of GW's new books instead of
downloading an illegal copy???
??????????-\\~S~//- ? Mobile — (415) 786-3624
???? Skype? stuart.hamm
myspace.com/stuhamm
? ??? stuarthamm.net
--- On Wed, 5/20/09, Jeff Wilson <jwilson at io.com> wrote:
From: Jeff Wilson <jwilson at io.com>
Subject: Re: (urth) (no subject)
No one's gonna back me? Don't we all rush out and buy a first edition of GW's new books instead of downloading an illegal copy???
You can download copies of Wolfe's books? I wish I had those.
But doesn't Wolfe get paid a % of every book you buy?
And if not enough people buy the DVDs doesn't that eventually mean the actors won't be able to negotiate higher up-front pay in the future? Doesn't the whole system of paying Ron Moore money up-front come from the expectation that people will buy the DVDs rather than watch burned copies?
Look, I think the RIAA goes a bit crazy over enforcing copyrights...trying to get coffee houses to pay every time somebody sings someone else's song. Still...what's good for the goose and all that.
J.
And look what happened to Mozart..
HE DIED!!!
??????????-\\~S~//- ? Mobile — (415) 786-3624
???? Skype? stuart.hamm
myspace.com/stuhamm
? ??? stuarthamm.net
--- On Wed, 5/20/09, brunians at brunians.org <brunians at brunians.org> wrote: From: brunians at brunians.org <brunians at brunians.org> Subject: Re: (urth) Fw: Re: (no subject) To: hammstu at sbcglobal.net, "The Urth Mailing List" <urth at lists.urth.net> Date: Wednesday, May 20, 2009, 2:46 PM
I think it is wrong. I just don't think that it is in any way similar to burglary, extortion, muggery, barratry etc etc.
I have thought for a while that y'all are going to have to figure out another paradigm as to how you extract your money from the market.
You know, Mozart only got paid for the shows that he personally put on. When other people produced his stuff in other cities, he got bupkis.
.
25 quoted lines
??????????-\\~S~//- ? Mobile — (415) 786-3624
???? Skype? stuart.hamm
myspace.com/stuhamm
? ??? stuarthamm.net
--- On Wed, 5/20/09, Stuart Hamm <hammstu at sbcglobal.net> wrote: From: Stuart Hamm <hammstu at sbcglobal.net> Subject: Re: (urth) (no subject) To: "Jeff Wilson" <jwilson at io.com> Date: Wednesday, May 20, 2009, 2:33 PM
I'm not sure I ever had credibility...certainly? not on this
forum...but
The actors and producers and people who work on a TV show are payed up front for their work...maybe some back end $ for DVD sales...but are not payed? based on how many people actually watch the show!! When someone buys a CD at a store or online a % of that sale goes to the writer/musicians...that's the way we make money off the product. If it's shared or downloaded illegaly I lose the opportunity to make $ off my work. Sure, if I download an episode of BSG Ron Moore may lose a few $...(but I'll buy the box set anyway..) but the lion's share of his earning have been payed already,,,regardless of whether 1 million or 25 million people watched that episode.
No one's gonna back me? Don't we all rush out and buy a first
edition of
GW's new books instead of
downloading an illegal copy???
??????????-\\~S~//- ? Mobile — (415) 786-3624
???? Skype? stuart.hamm
myspace.com/stuhamm
? ??? stuarthamm.net
--- On Wed, 5/20/09, Jeff Wilson <jwilson at io.com> wrote:
From: Jeff Wilson <jwilson at io.com>
Subject: Re: (urth) (no subject)
And look what happened to Mozart..
HE DIED!!!
??????????-\\~S~//- ? Mobile — (415) 786-3624
???? Skype? stuart.hamm
myspace.com/stuhamm
? ??? stuarthamm.net
--- On Wed, 5/20/09, brunians at brunians.org <brunians at brunians.org> wrote: From: brunians at brunians.org <brunians at brunians.org> Subject: Re: (urth) Fw: Re: (no subject) To: hammstu at sbcglobal.net, "The Urth Mailing List" <urth at lists.urth.net> Date: Wednesday, May 20, 2009, 2:46 PM
I think it is wrong. I just don't think that it is in any way similar to burglary, extortion, muggery, barratry etc etc.
I have thought for a while that y'all are going to have to figure out another paradigm as to how you extract your money from the market.
You know, Mozart only got paid for the shows that he personally put on. When other people produced his stuff in other cities, he got bupkis.
.
??????????-\\~S~//- ? Mobile — (415) 786-3624
???? Skype? stuart.hamm
myspace.com/stuhamm
? ??? stuarthamm.net
--- On Wed, 5/20/09, Stuart Hamm <hammstu at sbcglobal.net> wrote: From: Stuart Hamm <hammstu at sbcglobal.net> Subject: Re: (urth) (no subject) To: "Jeff Wilson" <jwilson at io.com> Date: Wednesday, May 20, 2009, 2:33 PM
I'm not sure I ever had credibility...certainly? not on this
forum...but
The actors and producers and people who work on a TV show are payed up front for their work...maybe some back end $ for DVD sales...but are not payed? based on how many people actually watch the show!! When someone buys a CD at a store or online a % of that sale goes to the writer/musicians...that's the way we make money off the product. If it's shared or downloaded illegaly I lose the opportunity to make $ off my work. Sure, if I download an episode of BSG Ron Moore may lose a few $...(but I'll buy the box set anyway..) but the lion's share of his earning have been payed already,,,regardless of whether 1 million or 25 million people watched that episode.
No one's gonna back me? Don't we all rush out and buy a first
edition of
GW's new books instead of
downloading an illegal copy???
??????????-\\~S~//- ? Mobile — (415) 786-3624
???? Skype? stuart.hamm
myspace.com/stuhamm
? ??? stuarthamm.net
--- On Wed, 5/20/09, Jeff Wilson <jwilson at io.com> wrote:
From: Jeff Wilson <jwilson at io.com>
Subject: Re: (urth) (no subject)
On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 5:58 PM, James Wynn <crushtv at gmail.com> wrote: You can download copies of Wolfe's books? I wish I had those.
Oh sure. There're plenty of ebook copies. They're awfully handy for searching. I haven't even tried (I got the ebooks from some torrents when I was looking for Niven stuff), but I've most of the major bits of Wolfeania. Since I know someone will be curious exactly what, here's a list:
afishstory.pdf
againstthelafayetteescadrille.pdf
atthepointofcapricorn.pdf
beaandherbirdbrother.pdf
castaway.pdf
comber.pdf
copperhead.pdf
countingcatsinzanzibar.pdf
detectiveofdreams.pdf
eastersunday.pdf
ebookdeathofdrisland.txt
endangeredspecies.pdf
greenglass.pdf
johnk.kinderprice.pdf
labefana.pdf
longsun1nightsidethelongsun.pdf
longsun2lakeofthelongsun.pdf
longsun3caldeofthelongsun.pdf
longsun4exodusfromthelongsun.pdf
marybeatricesmootfriarlyspv.pdf
memorare.pdf
morningglory.pdf
newsun03theswordofthelictorv1.0html.rar
newsun04thecitadeloftheautarchrtf.rar
newsun1theshadowofthetorturer.pdf
newsun1theshadowofthetorturer.rar
newsun2theclawoftheconciliator.pdf
newsun2theclawoftheconcilliator.rar
newsun3theswordofthelictor.pdf
newsun3theurthofthenewsun.rar
newsun4thecitadeloftheautarch.pdf
newsun5theurthofthenewsun.pdf
paulstreehouse.pdf
peritonitis.pdf
pettingzoo.pdf
queenv1.0.pdf
sevenamericannights.pdf
shortsun01onblueswaters.pdf
talkofmandrakes.pdf
thearimaspianlegacy.pdf
theboywhohookedthesun.pdf
thecaseofthevanishingghost.pdf
thedeadman.pdf
thedeathofdr.island.pdf
theeyeflashmiracles.pdf
thefifthheadofcerberus.pdf
thehorarsofwar.pdf
theislandofdoctordeath.txt
theislandofdr.death.pdf
thelostpilgrim.pdf
themaninthepeppermill.pdf
theotherdeadman.pdf
therearedoors.pdf
thesoldier01.soldierofthemist.pdf
thewaif.pdf
theziggurat.pdf
underhill.pdf
viewpoint.pdf
warbeneaththetree.pdf
On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 6:12 PM, <brunians at brunians.org> wrote: Are there more dead people or living people?
"There is no category of human activity in which the dead do not outnumber the living many times over. Most beautiful children are dead. Most soldiers, most cowards. The fairest women and the most learned men all are dead?Who can say how intently they listen as we speak, or for what word?"
(Severian, Citadel of the Autarch)
Some there I haven't read. Where do you gettum, Gwern?
.
67 quoted lines · 1–2 deep
On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 5:58 PM, James Wynn <crushtv at gmail.com> wrote:
You can download copies of Wolfe's books? I wish I had those.
Oh sure. There're plenty of ebook copies. They're awfully handy for searching. I haven't even tried (I got the ebooks from some torrents when I was looking for Niven stuff), but I've most of the major bits of Wolfeania. Since I know someone will be curious exactly what, here's a list:
afishstory.pdf
againstthelafayetteescadrille.pdf
atthepointofcapricorn.pdf
beaandherbirdbrother.pdf
castaway.pdf
comber.pdf
copperhead.pdf
countingcatsinzanzibar.pdf
detectiveofdreams.pdf
eastersunday.pdf
ebookdeathofdrisland.txt
endangeredspecies.pdf
greenglass.pdf
johnk.kinderprice.pdf
labefana.pdf
longsun1nightsidethelongsun.pdf
longsun2lakeofthelongsun.pdf
longsun3caldeofthelongsun.pdf
longsun4exodusfromthelongsun.pdf
marybeatricesmootfriarlyspv.pdf
memorare.pdf
morningglory.pdf
newsun03theswordofthelictorv1.0html.rar
newsun04thecitadeloftheautarchrtf.rar
newsun1theshadowofthetorturer.pdf
newsun1theshadowofthetorturer.rar
newsun2theclawoftheconciliator.pdf
newsun2theclawoftheconcilliator.rar
newsun3theswordofthelictor.pdf
newsun3theurthofthenewsun.rar
newsun4thecitadeloftheautarch.pdf
newsun5theurthofthenewsun.pdf
paulstreehouse.pdf
peritonitis.pdf
pettingzoo.pdf
queenv1.0.pdf
sevenamericannights.pdf
shortsun01onblueswaters.pdf
talkofmandrakes.pdf
thearimaspianlegacy.pdf
theboywhohookedthesun.pdf
thecaseofthevanishingghost.pdf
thedeadman.pdf
thedeathofdr.island.pdf
theeyeflashmiracles.pdf
thefifthheadofcerberus.pdf
thehorarsofwar.pdf
theislandofdoctordeath.txt
theislandofdr.death.pdf
thelostpilgrim.pdf
themaninthepeppermill.pdf
theotherdeadman.pdf
therearedoors.pdf
thesoldier01.soldierofthemist.pdf
thewaif.pdf
theziggurat.pdf
underhill.pdf
viewpoint.pdf
warbeneaththetree.pdf
--
gwern
_______________________________________________
Nope.
There are more living people.
Dead people are not.
.
9 quoted lines · 1–2 deep
On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 6:12 PM, <brunians at brunians.org> wrote:
Are there more dead people or living people?
"There is no category of human activity in which the dead do not outnumber the living many times over. Most beautiful children are dead. Most soldiers, most cowards. The fairest women and the most learned men???all are dead???Who can say how intently they listen as we speak, or for what word?"
(Severian, Citadel of the Autarch)
--
gwern
_______________________________________________
On May 20, 2009, at 5:21 PM, brunians at brunians.org wrote:
Nope.
There are more living people.
Hey! This is now, that will be then!
1 quoted line
Dead people are not.
Not people?
Why am I thinking of the Jonathan Coulton song, "Re: Your Brains" ?
"I'm not a monster, Tom....
Well, technically I am.
I guess I am."
Adam
5 quoted lines · 2–3 deep
On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 6:12 PM, <brunians at brunians.org> wrote:
Are there more dead people or living people?
"There is no category of human activity in which the dead do not outnumber the living many times over. Most beautiful children are dead. Most soldiers, most cowards. The fairest women and the most learned men???all are dead???Who can say how intently they listen as we speak, or for what word?"
(Severian, Citadel of the Autarch)
On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 6:21 PM,
wrote:
Some there I haven't read. Where do you gettum, Gwern?
- From Isohunt for the most part. Particularly impressive is one group which regularly releases batches of 'Science Fiction and Fantasy'; it's remarkable how recent releases turn up in their torrents, and how comprehensive they generally are.
(I just tried searching for Sanderson's recent Hero of Ages since I was in the middle of it when an acquaintance took it back, and sure enough, it was in one of their update torrents.)
- --
gwern
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