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Index · 6 messages · 3 voices · 18 Jan – 29 Jan 2010

Today, a Sea Slug. Tomorrow, ... ?

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David Stockhoff18 Jan 2010, 00:48as archived
Today, a Sea Slug. Tomorrow, ... ?
Severian's friend the Green Man always seemed quite plausible to me. I hadn't realized just how plausible. Apparently a sea slug has incorporate algae genes into its genome and produces and uses chlorophyll inside its body: http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/53496/title/Sea_slug_steals_genes_for_greens,_makes_chlorophyll_like_a_plan
Jeff Wilson18 Jan 2010, 02:44as archived
↳ in reply to David Stockhoff
3 quoted lines
Severian's friend the Green Man always seemed quite plausible to me. I hadn't realized just how plausible. Apparently a sea slug has incorporate algae genes into its genome and produces and uses chlorophyll inside its body: http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/53496/title/Sea_slug_steals_genes_for_greens,_makes_chlorophyll_like_a_plan
There's still a question of him being able to intercept enough sunlight to be more active than a slug. A man-sized silhouette in Earthly conditions intercepts less than 100 calories worth of sunlight a day. From the Green Man's sunny smile, his people apparently still have humanlike teeth, so presumably they can eat a variety of food to make up the deficit, but I'm not sure if reducing your food needs by 1/30 is worth the hassle. It might be that the chlorophyll isn't strictly for food, but for sensory purposes; can anyone think of an occasion when the Green Man would need to be able to feel a shadow falling on him, or would have to distinguish between bright lights of different character?
Jerry Friedman18 Jan 2010, 04:14as archived
↳ in reply to Jeff Wilson
10 quoted lines · depth 2
--- On Sun, 1/17/10, Jeff Wilson <jwilson at io.com> wrote: Severian's friend the Green Man always seemed quite plausible to me. I hadn't realized just how plausible. Apparently a sea slug has incorporate algae genes into its genome and produces and uses chlorophyll inside its body: http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/53496/title/Sea_slug_steals_genes_for_greens,_makes_chlorophyll_like_a_plan
That's pretty amazing, if it's confirmed.
5 quoted lines
There's still a question of him being able to intercept enough sunlight to be more active than a slug. A man-sized silhouette in Earthly conditions intercepts less than 100 calories worth of sunlight a day.
Is that with perfect efficiency? Gosh, are you seriously telling me to do the calculation? Half a square meter in sunbathing position, 1 kilowatt, 8 hours, that's 14,400 kJ or about 3400 big calories. You're assuming something like present photosynthetic efficiency.
7 quoted lines
From the Green Man's sunny smile, his people apparently still have humanlike teeth, so presumably they can eat a variety of food to make up the deficit, but I'm not sure if reducing your food needs by 1/30 is worth the hassle.
The sun could be brighter in his time than ours, and genetic engineering could have improved the efficiency of photosynthesis and that of metabolism.
7 quoted lines
It might be that the chlorophyll isn't strictly for food, but for sensory purposes; can anyone think of an occasion when the Green Man would need to be able to feel a shadow falling on him, or would have to distinguish between bright lights of different character?
I can't We do fine with vision. Though human color vision is rather klugy, I gather, and those same genetic engineers could probably improve it without any cost by making it more like birds'. Jerry Friedman
Jeff Wilson28 Jan 2010, 07:43as archived
↳ in reply to Jerry Friedman
12 quoted lines · 1–3 deep
On 1/17/2010 10:14 PM, Jerry Friedman wrote: --- On Sun, 1/17/10, Jeff Wilson<jwilson at io.com> wrote:
Severian's friend the Green Man always seemed quite plausible to me. I hadn't realized just how plausible. Apparently a sea slug has incorporate algae genes into its genome and produces and uses chlorophyll inside its body: http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/53496/title/Sea_slug_steals_genes_for_greens,_makes_chlorophyll_like_a_plan
That's pretty amazing, if it's confirmed.
Did you see the thing last year? A predator microbe that becomes photosynthetic if it eats this other microbe, then fissions into the original separate microbes again?
10 quoted lines · 1–2 deep
There's still a question of him being able to intercept enough sunlight to be more active than a slug. A man-sized silhouette in Earthly conditions intercepts less than 100 calories worth of sunlight a day.
Is that with perfect efficiency? Gosh, are you seriously telling me to do the calculation? Half a square meter in sunbathing position, 1 kilowatt, 8 hours, that's 14,400 kJ or about 3400 big calories. You're assuming something like present photosynthetic efficiency.
He said it was pond scum, so I presume it was something vaguely like pond scum.
10 quoted lines · 1–2 deep
From the Green Man's sunny smile, his people apparently still have humanlike teeth, so presumably they can eat a variety of food to make up the deficit, but I'm not sure if reducing your food needs by 1/30 is worth the hassle.
The sun could be brighter in his time than ours, and genetic engineering could have improved the efficiency of photosynthesis and that of metabolism.
maybe, but 30x as efficient?
Jeff Wilson - jwilson at io.com IEEE Student Chapter Blog at < http://ieeetamut.org >
Jerry Friedman29 Jan 2010, 01:52as archived
↳ in reply to Jeff Wilson
19 quoted lines · 1–4 deep
--- On Thu, 1/28/10, Jeff Wilson <jwilson at io.com> wrote: On 1/17/2010 10:14 PM, Jerry Friedman wrote:
--- On Sun, 1/17/10, Jeff Wilson<jwilson at io.com>?
wrote:
Severian's friend the Green Man always seemed quite plausible to me. I hadn't realized just how plausible. Apparently a sea slug has incorporate algae genes into its genome and produces and uses chlorophyll inside its body: http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/53496/title/Sea_slug_steals_genes_for_greens,_makes_chlorophyll_like_a_plan
That's pretty amazing, if it's confirmed.
Did you see the thing last year? A predator microbe that becomes photosynthetic if it eats this other microbe, then fissions into the original separate microbes again?
Missed that one.
17 quoted lines · 1–3 deep
There's still a question of him being able to intercept enough sunlight to be more active than a slug. A man-sized silhouette in Earthly conditions intercepts less than 100 calories worth of sunlight a day.
Is that with perfect efficiency? Gosh, are you seriously telling me to do the calculation? Half a square meter in sunbathing position, 1 kilowatt, 8 hours, that's 14,400 kJ or about 3400 big calories. You're assuming something like present photosynthetic efficiency.
He said it was pond scum, so I presume it was something vaguely like pond scum.
Sure. I just wanted to know what you were presuming.
12 quoted lines · 1–3 deep
? From the Green Man's sunny smile, his people apparently still have humanlike teeth, so presumably they can eat a variety of food to make up the deficit, but I'm not sure if reducing your food needs by 1/30 is worth the hassle.
The sun could be brighter in his time than ours, and genetic engineering could have improved the efficiency of photosynthesis and that of metabolism.
maybe, but 30x as efficient?
As you said, he probably still needs to eat. If between more sunlight and more efficient photosynthesis and metabolism he gets ten times as much as we would, it would reduce his need for food by about 1/3, which seems worth some hassle. Jerry Friedman
David Stockhoff29 Jan 2010, 23:22as archived
↳ follows Jerry Friedman · by subject
Furthermore, if those calculations are based on American calorie intake, you could cut the Green Man's food energy needs by up to 50% just by changing that assumption to a level more typical of the rest of humanity.
108 quoted lines · 1–4 deep
------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 17:52:02 -0800 (PST) From: Jerry Friedman <jerry_friedman at yahoo.com> To: The Urth Mailing List <urth at lists.urth.net> Subject: Re: (urth) Today, a Sea Slug. Tomorrow, ... — Message-ID: <378986.85096.qm at web50706.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 --- On Thu, 1/28/10, Jeff Wilson <jwilson at io.com> wrote: On 1/17/2010 10:14 PM, Jerry Friedman wrote:
--- On Sun, 1/17/10, Jeff Wilson<jwilson at io.com>?
wrote:
Severian's friend the Green Man
always seemed quite plausible to me. I
hadn't realized just how plausible. Apparently
a sea slug has
incorporate algae genes into its genome and
produces and uses
That's pretty amazing, if it's confirmed.
Did you see the thing last year? A predator microbe that becomes photosynthetic if it eats this other microbe, then fissions into the original separate microbes again? Missed that one.
There's still a question of him being able to
intercept enough sunlight to
be more active than a slug. A man-sized silhouette
in Earthly conditions
intercepts less than 100 calories worth of
sunlight a day.
Is that with perfect efficiency? Gosh, are you
seriously
telling me to do the calculation? Half a square
meter in
sunbathing position, 1 kilowatt, 8 hours, that's
14,400
kJ or about 3400 big calories. You're assuming
something
like present photosynthetic efficiency.
He said it was pond scum, so I presume it was something vaguely like pond scum. Sure. I just wanted to know what you were presuming.
? From the Green Man's sunny smile, his people apparently still
have humanlike teeth, so
presumably they can eat a variety of food to make
up the deficit, but I'm
not sure if reducing your food needs by 1/30 is
worth the hassle.
The sun could be brighter in his time than ours, and
genetic
engineering could have improved the efficiency of photosynthesis and that of metabolism.
maybe, but 30x as efficient? As you said, he probably still needs to eat. If between more sunlight and more efficient photosynthesis and metabolism he gets ten times as much as we would, it would reduce his need for food by about 1/3, which seems worth some hassle. Jerry Friedman ------------------------------

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