Flaubert's _The Temptation of Saint Anthony_ as influence on _New Sun_?

On Tue, 16 Apr 2013, Darth Ed wrote: My Wolfe reading group has been re-reading The Book of the New Sun lately. For about half the group, this is our third or fourth time reading it. For the remainder, it is our second time. One of our members remarked that he had recently read Gustave Flaubert's The Temptation of Saint Anthony [*] and he was struck by how many words from New Sun's antiquated vocabulary were used in The Temptation of Saint Anthony.

Obviously, Borges' work has long been recognized as an influence on Wolfe and New Sun. Is this possible Flaubert connection relatively untrodden territory? Or is this something generally known and my Google searches just didn't turn up much discussion of it?

Darth Ed wrote: My Wolfe reading group has been re-reading The Book of the New Sun lately. For about half the group, this is our third or fourth time reading it. For the remainder, it is our second time. One of our members remarked that he had recently read Gustave Flaubert's The Temptation of Saint Anthony [*] and he was struck by how many words from New Sun's antiquated vocabulary were used in The Temptation of Saint Anthony. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Temptation_of_Saint_Anthony_(Flaubert) He listed a half dozen examples, which I can't recall at the moment, but it was a very convincing list. We all thought it was very possible that this novel may have had a profound influence on Wolfe in his writing of The Book of the New Sun. The subject matter is certainly something that Wolfe might have been interested in following his conversion to Catholicism. I thought surely someone must have made this connection previously, but my searches of the urth.net mailing list, WolfeWiki.com, and the web at large revealed no discussion that I could locate of any connection between Wolfe and Flaubert's The Temptation of Saint Anthony, except for one academic book on Google Books: http://books.google.com/books?id=tE4FPNc8pr4C&lpg=PA106&ots=0GAiFFsx8a&dq=flaubert%20gene%20wolfe%20new%20sun%20temptation&pg=PA106#v=onepage&q=flaubert%20gene%20wolfe%20new%20sun%20temptation&f=false The author of the essay rather matter-of-factly states, right after quoting a passage from Gustave Flaubert's The Temptation of Saint Anthony: "Gene Wolfe's Book of the New Sun obviously derived in equal part from the Temptation and Borges's Book of Imaginary Beings (which itself contains many excerpts from the former source)." Sadly, the next page in that book is not visible on Google Books. A member of our group purchased the book from Google Books to check, and the Wolfe discussion pretty much ends with that sentence. Fortunately, Google Books has a convenient return policy. :-) Has anyone here read Flaubert's The Temptation of Saint Anthony and would care to comment? Has Wolfe made any comments concerning Flaubert or The Temptation of Saint Anthony in any interviews? Obviously, Borges' work has long been recognized as an influence on Wolfe and New Sun. Is this possible Flaubert connection relatively untrodden territory? Or is this something generally known and my Google searches just didn't turn up much discussion of it? Thanks, Ed

On 4/15/2013 11:29 PM, Darth Ed wrote: My Wolfe reading group has been re-reading The Book of the New Sun lately. For about half the group, this is our third or fourth time reading it. For the remainder, it is our second time. One of our members remarked that he had recently read Gustave Flaubert's The Temptation of Saint Anthony [*] and he was struck by how many words from New Sun's antiquated vocabulary were used in The Temptation of Saint Anthony. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Temptation_of_Saint_Anthony_(Flaubert) He listed a half dozen examples, which I can't recall at the moment, but it was a very convincing list. We all thought it was very possible that this novel may have had a profound influence on Wolfe in his writing of The Book of the New Sun. The subject matter is certainly something that Wolfe might have been interested in following his conversion to Catholicism. I thought surely someone must have made this connection previously, but my searches of the urth.net mailing list, WolfeWiki.com, and the web at large revealed no discussion that I could locate of any connection between Wolfe and Flaubert's The Temptation of Saint Anthony, except for one academic book on Google Books: http://books.google.com/books?id=tE4FPNc8pr4C&lpg=PA106&ots=0GAiFFsx8a&dq=flaubert%20gene%20wolfe%20new%20sun%20temptation&pg=PA106#v=onepage&q=flaubert%20gene%20wolfe%20new%20sun%20temptation&f=false The author of the essay rather matter-of-factly states, right after quoting a passage from Gustave Flaubert's The Temptation of Saint Anthony: "Gene Wolfe's Book of the New Sun obviously derived in equal part from the Temptation and Borges's Book of Imaginary Beings (which itself contains many excerpts from the former source)." Sadly, the next page in that book is not visible on Google Books. A member of our group purchased the book from Google Books to check, and the Wolfe discussion pretty much ends with that sentence. Fortunately, Google Books has a convenient return policy. :-) Has anyone here read Flaubert's The Temptation of Saint Anthony and would care to comment? Has Wolfe made any comments concerning Flaubert or The Temptation of Saint Anthony in any interviews? Obviously, Borges' work has long been recognized as an influence on Wolfe and New Sun. Is this possible Flaubert connection relatively untrodden territory? Or is this something generally known and my Google searches just didn't turn up much discussion of it? Thanks, Ed

On Apr 16, 2013, at 4:59 AM, David Duffy wrote: Well that will depend on the translation, of course.

Looking through the gutenberg.org one (Dunne 1904). Yes, we see "Erebus", "cynocephali", etc. But most of the story is taken up by visions of Death, Lust, the medieval bestiary, the Queen of Sheba, Roman, Egyptian, Buddhist, Hindu pantheons, Gnosticism, and space, guided by Hilarion/the Devil. They don't seem particularly close to Wolfe's vision. Specifically, Typhon doesn't resemble either Flaubert's Devil or the Emperor Constantine.

On Apr 16, 2013, at 5:02 AM, Nessun Sapr? wrote: According to a interview with Joan Gordon 1981 (reprinted in Wright’s "Shadows") GW’s favorite authors are "Damon Knight, Kate Wilhelm, Joanna Russ, Ursula LeGuin, R. A. Lafferty, Saul Bellow and John Updike, with many more among the living. Poe, Proust, Dickens, Chesterton, FLAUBERT, Orwell, Thurber, Twain, Melville, Irving, Van Gulik, Kafka, Borges, Dosteyevsky, Bulgakov ?"

On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 10:43 AM, David Stockhoff <dstockhoff at verizon.net> wrote: Speaking of borrowed words, does anyone know of an earlier use of the term "autarch" than by James Blish in his Cities in Flight novels? or, for that matter, any other use?

A Frank having made certain acquisitions, may be raised to the rank of Autarch. The election lies with the ... An Autarch, in addition to the rights of the Veteran Frank, is privileged from all fines ; but he receives no reward. The institution of ...

Hence, one of his S^nfcrit nanus, Vrifhndw.ija, li^nifyinj — whofe enfign is a bull. "Autarch informs uj, that ' iNilum pattern ac fervatorem fu-x re- iJ 4 gicuis, * gionis, ac defluxum Ofiridis nominant. ' The Ganges in. Moor's Hindu Pantheon..."

made certain acquisitions, may be raised to the rank of autarch.

... purified by reason, the aspect of history : in those cases where it haughtily scorns plausibility and will admit no alliance with what is probable, I shall beg for indulgent hearers, willing to receive antique Autarch? narrative in a mild spirit2.

Ynd Anglican aldermen and anarclials, A.nd arch-dukes, and arch-priests, and admirals, Approving Ale, acquired an assuetude \lish f and allowed Ale an amplitude About as ample as asks an autarch, 1

31 Widmark, Lawrence Emil, 1889- An inquiry into the functioning of an industrial autarch}', by Lawr. E. Widmark ... cNew York, Albert Bonnier publishing house, c1934] 3 p. 1., 9-60 p. diagrs. 231cm. "Is modern business mathematically ..."

... has handed down, to us a striking instance of this truth in the case of Aristides, which is too remarkable i& be omitted. c When Aristides was created Qu?stor, or high Treasurer of Athens, he fairly laid be- * Demades, according to Autarch, ...

These porches or Autarch in front of the houses are for receiving passing strangers, both for giving them meat and drink, and also a place to rest and sleep ; they take them not inside their houses, so that they may depart during the night when ...

... being ordered by the senate to repel force with force, attacked him, killed several of his men, and lost some of his own. By this action he forseited the favour of the people : Put this was not the only thing that rendered him & autarch's LIVES.

See D'laraeli's autarch of Author/, and tit. Anecd. III. 887.

ENGLISH WRITERS. Chapters for Self-Improvement in English

His Know- autarch'' ren^re^ mra sensible of his Ignorance, and de Doctr. his Ingenuity prompted him, without Ceremony, Epicur. to confess it. Epicurus had good Talents of Nature, and was a Philosopher in his very Pleasures : 'Tis a saying of ...

kiLkh, at t5 run am*um, patari.k in autarch. By th* assistance of a supplement, arranged to jiriailt the present regular number, we are enabled this week to dispose of the entire reports of Messrs.

... are of the exact species of writing of the Athente, critical justice demands from us, that we should slate of what species they are : and here we must refer their origin to a much more ancient prototype than Anthony Woodi we mean, to Autarch, ...

We have lost Mr. Creus, the Spanish Consul, and Mr. Autarch!, his interpreter. At Cairo the mortality was less severe. The establishment of the Pacha, the regiments and manufacturers, have suffered most. We huve also to regret the loss of ...

It is only under autarch of triumph that you should return.

What little ornament there is I have bestowed, not injudiciously I trow, on the slenderest part. You will find but one episode, and even that does not obstruct the progress of the main subject ; and for parallels, I will be bold to say Autarch does ...

David Stockhoff wrote: Speaking of borrowed words, does anyone know of an earlier use of the term "autarch" than by James Blish in his Cities in Flight novels? or, for that matter, any other use? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Blish _______________________________________________

On 4/18/2013 12:57 PM, Sergei SOLOVIEV wrote: I think it was already mentioned that autarch means the same as autocrator, and autocrator was an official title of Byzantine emperors http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autokrator The same title (translated into Russian) was among the titles of Russian emperors ("samoderjets"). Sergei Soloviev David Stockhoff wrote:

Speaking of borrowed words, does anyone know of an earlier use of the term "autarch" than by James Blish in his Cities in Flight novels? or, for that matter, any other use? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Blish _______________________________________________

On 4/18/2013 12:02 PM, Gwern Branwen wrote: On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 10:43 AM, David Stockhoff <dstockhoff at verizon.net> wrote:

Speaking of borrowed words, does anyone know of an earlier use of the term "autarch" than by James Blish in his Cities in Flight novels? or, for that matter, any other use?

It's surprisingly rare: http://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=autarch&year_start00&year_end 00&corpus&smoothing=3&share> http://i.imgur.com/tvf6jCT.png A direct Google Books search from 1/1/1700 to 1/1/1950 turns up ( https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=%22autarch%22&gbv=2&sa=X&ei=yhZwUZbRIMep4AOygoHwDg&ved CYQpwUoBA&source=lnt&tbsÍr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A1%2F1%2F1700%2Ccd_max%3A1%2F1%2F1950&tbm=bks ), after eliminating obvious duplicates, 17 results (archive of results: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/85192141/2013-googlebooks-autarch.html.maff ): 1. The Edinburgh Review of Critical Journal October 1824...January 1825 - Page 334 books.google.com/books?id=WmIJAAAAQAAJ > A Frank having made certain acquisitions, may be raised to the rank of Autarch. The election lies with the ... An Autarch, in addition to the rights of the Veteran Frank, is privileged from all fines ; but he receives no reward. The institution of ... 2. The Edinburgh Review: Or Critical Journal - Volume 17 - Page 316; Sydney Smith, Lord Francis Jeffrey Jeffrey, Macvey Napier - 1810 books.google.com/books?id=AMfIvX8uFeAC > Hence, one of his S^nfcrit nanus, Vrifhndw.ija, li^nifyinj ? whofe enfign is a bull. "Autarch informs uj, that ' iNilum pattern ac fervatorem fu-x re- iJ 4 gicuis, * gionis, ac defluxum Ofiridis nominant. ' The Ganges in. Moor's Hindu Pantheon..." 3. Public education: plans for the government and liberal instruction ... - Page 56 Arthur Hill (teacher.) - 1825 books.google.com/books?idúUAAAAAYAAJ > made certain acquisitions, may be raised to the rank of autarch. The election lies with the conference, the committee, and the previous autarchs, either of which bodies has a veto. An autarch, in addition to the rights of the veteran frank, ... 4. History of Greece - Volume 1 - Page 284 books.google.com/books?id=n3sLAAAAYAAJ George Grote - 1849 > ... purified by reason, the aspect of history : in those cases where it haughtily scorns plausibility and will admit no alliance with what is probable, I shall beg for indulgent hearers, willing to receive antique Autarch? narrative in a mild spirit2. 5. Alliteration: An alliterated allocution by the letter A against ... - Page 22 books.google.com/books?id=ehIVAQAAMAAJ James Nelson Hulme - 1882 > Ynd Anglican aldermen and anarclials, A.nd arch-dukes, and arch-priests, and admirals, Approving Ale, acquired an assuetude \lish f and allowed Ale an amplitude About as ample as asks an autarch, 1 As-ttite ' , — Critically examining or ... 6. Catalog of Copyright Entries. New Series: 1934 - Part 1 - Page 32 books.google.com/books?id=raMhAQAAIAAJ Library of Congress. Copyright Office - 1935 > 31 Widmark, Lawrence Emil, 1889- An inquiry into the functioning of an industrial autarch}', by Lawr. E. Widmark ... cNew York, Albert Bonnier publishing house, c1934] 3 p. 1., 9-60 p. diagrs. 231cm. "Is modern business mathematically ..." 7. Reflections on the rise and fall of the ancient republicks: ... - Page 148 books.google.com/books?id=QE1WAAAAYAAJ Edward Wortley Montagu - 1769 > ... has handed down, to us a striking instance of this truth in the case of Aristides, which is too remarkable i& be omitted. c When Aristides was created Qu?stor, or high Treasurer of Athens, he fairly laid be- * Demades, according to Autarch, ... 8. The Voyage of Fran?ois Pyrard of Laval to the East Indies, the ... - Issue 76, Volume 1 - Page 404 books.google.com/books?id=x4EMAAAAIAAJ Fran?ois Pyrard, Pierre de Bergeron, J?r?me Bignon - 1887 > These porches or Autarch in front of the houses are for receiving passing strangers, both for giving them meat and drink, and also a place to rest and sleep ; they take them not inside their houses, so that they may depart during the night when ... 9. Lives, translated from the Greek, with notes critical and ... - Volume 7 - Page 8 books.google.com/books?id=rFAMAAAAYAAJ Plutarch - 1808 > ... being ordered by the senate to repel force with force, attacked him, killed several of his men, and lost some of his own. By this action he forseited the favour of the people : Put this was not the only thing that rendered him & autarch's LIVES. 10. The English portion of the library of the Ven. Francis Wrangham - Page 315 books.google.com/books?id=AMURAAAAIAAJ Francis Wrangham - 1826 > See D'laraeli's autarch of Author/, and tit. Anecd. III. 887. Two Copies only of this Collection were printed on T'ine Paper : of which one was MM. at Dr. Farmer's Sale in it90, to Mr. Dent for 11. 16*. ; and the ottrer, his own present to Mr. Reed, ... 11. The Publishers' circular and general record of British and foreign ... - Volume 33 - Page 777 books.google.com/books?id=aWVWAAAAYAAJ 1870 > ENGLISH WRITERS. Chapters for Self-Improvement in English Literature. DTHER PEOPLES WINDOWS. By the Author of 'Gentle Life.' LIBRARY EDITIONS OF STANDARD WORKS. AUTARCH'S LIVES. New Edition. By the late A. H. Clougii. 12. The whole critical works of Monsieur Rapin ...: Newly done into ... - Page 398 books.google.com/books?id=UC1JAAAAMAAJ Ren? Rapin, Thomas Taylor, Thomas Rymer - 1706 > His Know- autarch'' ren^re^ mra sensible of his Ignorance, and de Doctr. his Ingenuity prompted him, without Ceremony, Epicur. to confess it. Epicurus had good Talents of Nature, and was a Philosopher in his very Pleasures : 'Tis a saying of ... 13. Niles' Weekly Register - Volume 15 - Page 225 books.google.com/books?id=q_IaAAAAYAAJ Hezekiah Niles, William Ogden Niles - 1819 > kiLkh, at t5 run am*um, patari.k in autarch. By th* assistance of a supplement, arranged to jiriailt the present regular number, we are enabled this week to dispose of the entire reports of Messrs. HoBiirnnd Graham, on South- American affairs, ... 14. The European Magazine, and London Review - Volumes 61-62 - Page 210 books.google.com/books?id=NB8YAQAAIAAJ 1812 > ... are of the exact species of writing of the Athente, critical justice demands from us, that we should slate of what species they are : and here we must refer their origin to a much more ancient prototype than Anthony Woodi we mean, to Autarch, ... 15. Asiatic Journal - Volume 6 - Page 183 books.google.com/books?id=PBQLAQAAMAAJ 1831 > We have lost Mr. Creus, the Spanish Consul, and Mr. Autarch!, his interpreter. At Cairo the mortality was less severe. The establishment of the Pacha, the regiments and manufacturers, have suffered most. We huve also to regret the loss of ... 16. Cobbett's Political Register - Volume 10 books.google.com/books?id=iCM8AAAAIAAJ William Cobbett - 1806 > It is only under autarch of triumph that you should return. What! have , we braved the seasons, the seas, and the deserts ; have we triumphed over Europe leagued against us ; have we borneour glory, from Orient to the Setting Sun, only to ... 17. Hannah More - Page 76 books.google.com/books?id=8KwEAAAAYAAJ Charlotte Mary Yonge - 1888 > What little ornament there is I have bestowed, not injudiciously I trow, on the slenderest part. You will find but one episode, and even that does not obstruct the progress of the main subject ; and for parallels, I will be bold to say Autarch does ... We can see there's a lot of Greco-Roman context in the hits, and in one or two it looks like some sort of error ('autarch of triumph'?) or to be someone's name ('Mr. Autarch'). So overall, a very rare word indeed.